3 ms·

What's even more amazing is that they had these safe cities without [Flock, Motorola, Axon]. I guess we will never know how they did it, but at least we get the

by epoxia 3mo ago

What's even more amazing is that they had these safe cities without [Flock, Motorola, Axon]. I guess we will never know how they did it, but at least we get the Chinese surveillance state.

khuey 3mo ago
My experience in major East Asian cities (predominantly Tokyo and Taipei) is that they have extensive networks of surveillance cameras operated by or accessible to the police.
- dopidopHN2 3mo ago
  Flock is not the police. Their main customer is Home Depot. Their second one is Lowe's. Then come the big police department. Allowing a private company to profit of holding information about me is innerving to me. I would feel better if it was 100% run by the police. ( better, not good )
  - abalashov 3mo ago
    And it's not an accident that Flock cameras were implicated in many ICE raids at Home Depot and Lowe's, either.
    - naturalmovement 3mo ago
      [flagged]
      - abalashov 3mo ago
        It was both, of course, but it's not an accident they were placed there at scale.
        naturalmovement 3mo ago
        I disagree, I see them all over the place, it is due to shoplifting.
        abalashov 3mo ago
        It is also due to shoplifting. They wouldn't get deployed if nobody could justify them in any way. https://prospect.org/2026/05/21/home-depot-lowes-downplay-customer-surveillance-threats-flock-cameras-immigration/ https://prospect.org/2026/05/21/home-depot-lowes-downplay-cu...
        kevin_thibedeau 3mo ago
        My Home Depot, on the north coast, was selling off cases of Jarritos a few months ago. They very much cater to the day laborers.
        abalashov 3mo ago
        I hear you, but a little foray into history may convince you that this kind of two-facedness and speaking out of both sides of one's mouth is actually quite common. This is particularly true when the decisionmakers for the one (ICE cooperation) and the other (selling Jarritos and catering to day labourers more generally), and all the more true if there's revenue attached to doing both.
      - ethagnawl 3mo ago
        Then surely they're being used to bust the people hiring them, too ... Right?
        abalashov 3mo ago
        Surely.
- nerdsniper 3mo ago
  I can’t remember the last place I visited which didn’t. Maybe Lake Atitlan pre-2020? Still, a few some areas of Asia achieved this reputation back when cameras were still extremely rare.
  - khuey 3mo ago
    Yes, there are cultural reasons crime is lower in East Asia too, but I haven't been to a major city there that doesn't have an extensive surveillance system.
- kurthr 3mo ago
  Japanese police are very rarely willing to even ask to look at any of the disorganized hodgepodge of private cameras for property crimes or even minor physical altercations. They are far more likely to rely on personal accounts. TV dramas not withstanding. Although Tokyo does have a system of traffic cameras which log traffic movement and license plates, that's most all that it does. Except in cases of murder or kidnapping (or political influence), it's quite rare to request the recordings of many private cameras. Outside of big cities, it's even more rare. The largest connected system of cameras I'm aware of are for the subway camera systems (Shinjuku, Shinagawa, etc). Although independent systems, together they can do facial recognition to track individuals. Not a lot of AI yet, though. In Tokyo, it is not uncommon to see bikes parked on residential streets with keys left overnight in their wheel locks (as if there aren't even mischievous 12 year olds?!). Oh, and outside of the cities, crime is even more rare. It is common in youth hostels for there to be open cubbies where personal items are stored in the front near the door. Nothing is taken. Most common thefts are: umbrellas (considered a fungible public good?), unlocked bikes (in high traffic business areas), women's underwear (off of outdoor drying racks).
  - kurthr 3mo ago
    I should mention that the list of thefts (other than an umbrella which I promptly replaced with its neighbor) are not ones that I have personally experienced, nor do I suspect that it is statistically accurate to those reported to police (conbini shoplifting and transit fare skipping must be larger). However, it is accurate to the top 3 "thefts" I've heard Tokyo residents complain about. If a native cares to correct me, I'd retract it.

by epoxia 3mo ago

What's even more amazing is that they had these safe cities without [Flock, Motorola, Axon]. I guess we will never know how they did it, but at least we get the Chinese surveillance state.

khuey 3mo ago

My experience in major East Asian cities (predominantly Tokyo and Taipei) is that they have extensive networks of surveillance cameras operated by or accessible to the police.

dopidopHN2 3mo ago
Flock is not the police. Their main customer is Home Depot. Their second one is Lowe's. Then come the big police department. Allowing a private company to profit of holding information about me is innerving to me. I would feel better if it was 100% run by the police. ( better, not good )
- abalashov 3mo ago
  And it's not an accident that Flock cameras were implicated in many ICE raids at Home Depot and Lowe's, either.
  - naturalmovement 3mo ago
    [flagged]
    - abalashov 3mo ago
      It was both, of course, but it's not an accident they were placed there at scale.
      - naturalmovement 3mo ago
        I disagree, I see them all over the place, it is due to shoplifting.
        abalashov 3mo ago
        It is also due to shoplifting. They wouldn't get deployed if nobody could justify them in any way. https://prospect.org/2026/05/21/home-depot-lowes-downplay-customer-surveillance-threats-flock-cameras-immigration/ https://prospect.org/2026/05/21/home-depot-lowes-downplay-cu...
      - kevin_thibedeau 3mo ago
        My Home Depot, on the north coast, was selling off cases of Jarritos a few months ago. They very much cater to the day laborers.
        abalashov 3mo ago
        I hear you, but a little foray into history may convince you that this kind of two-facedness and speaking out of both sides of one's mouth is actually quite common. This is particularly true when the decisionmakers for the one (ICE cooperation) and the other (selling Jarritos and catering to day labourers more generally), and all the more true if there's revenue attached to doing both.
    - ethagnawl 3mo ago
      Then surely they're being used to bust the people hiring them, too ... Right?
      - abalashov 3mo ago
        Surely.
nerdsniper 3mo ago
I can’t remember the last place I visited which didn’t. Maybe Lake Atitlan pre-2020? Still, a few some areas of Asia achieved this reputation back when cameras were still extremely rare.
- khuey 3mo ago
  Yes, there are cultural reasons crime is lower in East Asia too, but I haven't been to a major city there that doesn't have an extensive surveillance system.
kurthr 3mo ago
Japanese police are very rarely willing to even ask to look at any of the disorganized hodgepodge of private cameras for property crimes or even minor physical altercations. They are far more likely to rely on personal accounts. TV dramas not withstanding. Although Tokyo does have a system of traffic cameras which log traffic movement and license plates, that's most all that it does. Except in cases of murder or kidnapping (or political influence), it's quite rare to request the recordings of many private cameras. Outside of big cities, it's even more rare. The largest connected system of cameras I'm aware of are for the subway camera systems (Shinjuku, Shinagawa, etc). Although independent systems, together they can do facial recognition to track individuals. Not a lot of AI yet, though. In Tokyo, it is not uncommon to see bikes parked on residential streets with keys left overnight in their wheel locks (as if there aren't even mischievous 12 year olds?!). Oh, and outside of the cities, crime is even more rare. It is common in youth hostels for there to be open cubbies where personal items are stored in the front near the door. Nothing is taken. Most common thefts are: umbrellas (considered a fungible public good?), unlocked bikes (in high traffic business areas), women's underwear (off of outdoor drying racks).
- kurthr 3mo ago
  I should mention that the list of thefts (other than an umbrella which I promptly replaced with its neighbor) are not ones that I have personally experienced, nor do I suspect that it is statistically accurate to those reported to police (conbini shoplifting and transit fare skipping must be larger). However, it is accurate to the top 3 "thefts" I've heard Tokyo residents complain about. If a native cares to correct me, I'd retract it.