4 ms·

I would be more terrified if they didn’t spare a manufacturer who designs and makes cars in Sweden and the US since decades just because the majority owner is C

by Kon5ole 4mo ago

I would be more terrified if they didn’t spare a manufacturer who designs and makes cars in Sweden and the US since decades just because the majority owner is Chinese.

queenkjuul 4mo ago
Polestar designs cars in Sweden and builds then in the US for many years, it's still strange
- Kon5ole 4mo ago
  I don't think Polestar should be banned, nor any other Chinese car maker for that matter, but I can understand why Volvo gets a different treatment. Volvo probably employs several 1000s of people throughout the US from decades of dealerships, workshops, second hand sales etc, and they have a relatively large factory in the US. Polestar OTOH has no factories and use direct-sales instead of going through dealerships. So it's likely that Volvo generates a lot more value inside the US than they extract, while Polestar probably doesn't.
  - hawkice 4mo ago
    The vast majority of the value provided vs extracted, for any business, is related to consumer surplus and gross margins, as opposed to payroll.
    - Kon5ole 4mo ago
      >The vast majority of the value provided vs extracted, for any business, is related to consumer surplus and gross margins, as opposed to payroll. Not sure what you mean here but I suspect we're talking about different things. Payroll is obviously value created by the business that's directly given to the society where the business operates, and it's not uncommon that it's higher than the company profits. Take Amazon for example, payroll costs are much higher than the profits. Car companies also create a secondary maintenance and repair business, insurance and financing business, resale business and so on that generate more value in the country they operate as well. So I find it likely that a well established car brand like Volvo generates more money that stays in the US than they generate money that is extracted out from the US.
      - hawkice 4mo ago
        And taking the labor and time of the employees is a value extracted. While there is some modest surplus I hope people get from their job (e.g. they'd do the same job for less money), that surplus of excess wages over what people would accept will be lower than consumer surplus for almost any standard business.
        Kon5ole 4mo ago
        >And taking the labor and time of the employees is a value extracted That counts the value twice though. The value of the labour is precisely the payroll and the profits so it's accounted for. Edit: So simply put, Volvo (or any other co with a factory in the US) operates a business that generates a lot of payroll and some profits, and the payroll remains in the US.
  - sbalea 4mo ago
    You're touching on what is probably the real reason. Volvo has an extensive dealer network in the US, and dealers are traditionally involved in the political process (i.e. they lobby extensively). Also Volvos enjoy a decent market share and brand recognition. Polestar on the other hand only sold in single digit thousands in the past couple of years and are definitely not as well known. There's not a lot of difference otherwise, Polestar 3 is 95% identical to Volvo EX90 and they're both manufactured at Volvo's South Carolina plant mainly from Chinese parts. Polestar 4 is indeed diferent, based on Zeeker 001 and manufactured in South Korea. Anyways, my guess is Polestar didn't jump through the hoops and didn't grease the right wheels, probably because it was not worth the trouble for what is about 5-6% of their global market share
insane_dreamer 4mo ago
Are they going to also ban Jaguar and Land Rover because they're owned by an Indian company?

by Kon5ole 4mo ago

I would be more terrified if they didn’t spare a manufacturer who designs and makes cars in Sweden and the US since decades just because the majority owner is Chinese.

queenkjuul 4mo ago

Polestar designs cars in Sweden and builds then in the US for many years, it's still strange

Kon5ole 4mo ago
I don't think Polestar should be banned, nor any other Chinese car maker for that matter, but I can understand why Volvo gets a different treatment. Volvo probably employs several 1000s of people throughout the US from decades of dealerships, workshops, second hand sales etc, and they have a relatively large factory in the US. Polestar OTOH has no factories and use direct-sales instead of going through dealerships. So it's likely that Volvo generates a lot more value inside the US than they extract, while Polestar probably doesn't.
- hawkice 4mo ago
  The vast majority of the value provided vs extracted, for any business, is related to consumer surplus and gross margins, as opposed to payroll.
  - Kon5ole 4mo ago
    >The vast majority of the value provided vs extracted, for any business, is related to consumer surplus and gross margins, as opposed to payroll. Not sure what you mean here but I suspect we're talking about different things. Payroll is obviously value created by the business that's directly given to the society where the business operates, and it's not uncommon that it's higher than the company profits. Take Amazon for example, payroll costs are much higher than the profits. Car companies also create a secondary maintenance and repair business, insurance and financing business, resale business and so on that generate more value in the country they operate as well. So I find it likely that a well established car brand like Volvo generates more money that stays in the US than they generate money that is extracted out from the US.
    - hawkice 4mo ago
      And taking the labor and time of the employees is a value extracted. While there is some modest surplus I hope people get from their job (e.g. they'd do the same job for less money), that surplus of excess wages over what people would accept will be lower than consumer surplus for almost any standard business.
      - Kon5ole 4mo ago
        >And taking the labor and time of the employees is a value extracted That counts the value twice though. The value of the labour is precisely the payroll and the profits so it's accounted for. Edit: So simply put, Volvo (or any other co with a factory in the US) operates a business that generates a lot of payroll and some profits, and the payroll remains in the US.
- sbalea 4mo ago
  You're touching on what is probably the real reason. Volvo has an extensive dealer network in the US, and dealers are traditionally involved in the political process (i.e. they lobby extensively). Also Volvos enjoy a decent market share and brand recognition. Polestar on the other hand only sold in single digit thousands in the past couple of years and are definitely not as well known. There's not a lot of difference otherwise, Polestar 3 is 95% identical to Volvo EX90 and they're both manufactured at Volvo's South Carolina plant mainly from Chinese parts. Polestar 4 is indeed diferent, based on Zeeker 001 and manufactured in South Korea. Anyways, my guess is Polestar didn't jump through the hoops and didn't grease the right wheels, probably because it was not worth the trouble for what is about 5-6% of their global market share

insane_dreamer 4mo ago

Are they going to also ban Jaguar and Land Rover because they're owned by an Indian company?