3 ms·

Am I understanding that the solution proposed in the article is to allow more dense building in suburbs/outskirts of cities in Europe? This doesn't solve the ac

by yladiz 3mo ago

Am I understanding that the solution proposed in the article is to allow more dense building in suburbs/outskirts of cities in Europe? This doesn't solve the actual problem that many European cities face, which is a housing shortage in the actual city center, where people want to live; there's generally not that much a lack of housing the further you get outside of a major city center in Europe, and people don't want to live outside of the city center because, well, they want to be in the city.

JumpCrisscross 3mo ago
> people don't want to live outside of the city center Are home prices just outside the city center stagnant?
- yladiz 3mo ago
  No, but they are don't rise nearly as much as real estate prices in city centers, and it's mostly irrelevant to the point I was making, because it doesn't matter how the prices are outside of the city center if you want to live in the city center.
  - JumpCrisscross 3mo ago
    > they are don't rise nearly as much as real estate prices in city centers Pick the low-hanging fruit. More housing outside the city centre (with requisite transit infrastructure) still means more-affordable housing. That, in turn, should relieve pressure on the centre.
    - yladiz 3mo ago
      Many cities and areas close to major European cities have good transit infrastructure, yet people don't want to live there, they want to live in the city. So making more housing outside of the city, again, doesn't solve the actual problem facing major European cities.
      - JumpCrisscross 3mo ago
        > yet people don't want to live there This is obviously untrue if the prices have risen.
        yladiz 3mo ago
        What?
        JumpCrisscross 3mo ago
        If prices for houses just outside the city haven’t fallen, there is clearly demand for them.
      - hyhatqtv 3mo ago
        Such as? I don’t think the other commenters meant areas requiring a 1-2 hours commute but actual suburbs
yen223 3mo ago
Making secondary cities more attractive ought to be part of the conversation around housing affordability
jonkoops 3mo ago
I live in Amsterdam; nobody wants to live in the city center. There are plenty of ways to keep an old city center AND build out the surrounding areas in a way that people actually would like to live there. We do really need to have a serious conversation about single-family homes; you will even find them right next to metro stations. Some of these low-density neighborhoods really need to be demolished and reconstructed into higher-density housing that can still reasonably house a family.
- yladiz 3mo ago
  That's a fair point, maybe "city center" isn't the best term here. What I mean are areas still in the city close to where a lot of the cafes, bars, restaurants, nightlife - third places in general - are, which is where people that want to live in a city generally prefer to live in if possible.
elzbardico 3mo ago
Most people in HN fail to understand that the vast majority of people don't want to live in incredibly dense city centers. Not everyone is a young single professional without kids. This doesn't mean that everyone wants to live in a single family house in a suburb, but also not everyone wants to live in a highrise in a packed city center that looks like hong kong.
- watwut 3mo ago
  Families want to live in dense centers or close to them. The parents who can afford it actually like being close to schools, to their work, to where after school programs are. The city centers are the most expensive, because vast majority wants to live there. Further away is less expensive and even mode further away is even more expensive. Most if not all european city centers are no dystopia. They are perfectly compatible with having familly.
secretsatan 3mo ago
With many city centers in europe steeped in history, it’s never going to happen. But in contradiction to the article, just up the road from me, practically a small town was built of high density housing in what i would still consider “the city”, but with amenities and improved public transport factored in

by yladiz 3mo ago

JumpCrisscross 3mo ago

> people don't want to live outside of the city center Are home prices just outside the city center stagnant?

yladiz 3mo ago
No, but they are don't rise nearly as much as real estate prices in city centers, and it's mostly irrelevant to the point I was making, because it doesn't matter how the prices are outside of the city center if you want to live in the city center.
- JumpCrisscross 3mo ago
  > they are don't rise nearly as much as real estate prices in city centers Pick the low-hanging fruit. More housing outside the city centre (with requisite transit infrastructure) still means more-affordable housing. That, in turn, should relieve pressure on the centre.
  - yladiz 3mo ago
    Many cities and areas close to major European cities have good transit infrastructure, yet people don't want to live there, they want to live in the city. So making more housing outside of the city, again, doesn't solve the actual problem facing major European cities.
    - JumpCrisscross 3mo ago
      > yet people don't want to live there This is obviously untrue if the prices have risen.
      - yladiz 3mo ago
        What?
        JumpCrisscross 3mo ago
        If prices for houses just outside the city haven’t fallen, there is clearly demand for them.
    - hyhatqtv 3mo ago
      Such as? I don’t think the other commenters meant areas requiring a 1-2 hours commute but actual suburbs

yen223 3mo ago

Making secondary cities more attractive ought to be part of the conversation around housing affordability

jonkoops 3mo ago

I live in Amsterdam; nobody wants to live in the city center. There are plenty of ways to keep an old city center AND build out the surrounding areas in a way that people actually would like to live there. We do really need to have a serious conversation about single-family homes; you will even find them right next to metro stations. Some of these low-density neighborhoods really need to be demolished and reconstructed into higher-density housing that can still reasonably house a family.

yladiz 3mo ago
That's a fair point, maybe "city center" isn't the best term here. What I mean are areas still in the city close to where a lot of the cafes, bars, restaurants, nightlife - third places in general - are, which is where people that want to live in a city generally prefer to live in if possible.

elzbardico 3mo ago

Most people in HN fail to understand that the vast majority of people don't want to live in incredibly dense city centers. Not everyone is a young single professional without kids. This doesn't mean that everyone wants to live in a single family house in a suburb, but also not everyone wants to live in a highrise in a packed city center that looks like hong kong.

watwut 3mo ago
Families want to live in dense centers or close to them. The parents who can afford it actually like being close to schools, to their work, to where after school programs are. The city centers are the most expensive, because vast majority wants to live there. Further away is less expensive and even mode further away is even more expensive. Most if not all european city centers are no dystopia. They are perfectly compatible with having familly.

secretsatan 3mo ago

With many city centers in europe steeped in history, it’s never going to happen. But in contradiction to the article, just up the road from me, practically a small town was built of high density housing in what i would still consider “the city”, but with amenities and improved public transport factored in