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> "AI" == "what (through tech) can replace a professional" But as you point out, we used to have human calculators. So is a simple desk calculator a form of "A

> "AI" == "what (through tech) can replace a professional" But as you point out, we used to have human calculators. So is a simple desk calculator a form of "AI"? If so, what type of software isn't AI?

mdp2021 4mo ago
> is a simple desk calculator a form of "AI" If what it does is "taking care of the carry", it represents a pretty minimal requirement for intelligence - it does replace a professional that could do it, but that professional does not have to apply too much proficiency and cleverness to do its job. It is improper AI. > what type of software isn't AI That which would not correspond to the job of an intelligent entity. Maybe blitting bitmaps around a screen? As I tried to convey, it is more of a matter of perspective: the area of "implementing ways to solve problems as an intelligent entity would". It is a discipline that intersects others - engineering, logic, brain science, philosophy, epistemology, maybe again economics (as "the science of optimality and efficiency" - as an intelligent solver would do)... Consider it a special discipline that spans many other realms.
- Wowfunhappy 4mo ago
  > Maybe blitting bitmaps around a screen? Okay, that makes sense. Even so: > If what it does is "taking care of the carry", it represents a pretty minimal requirement for intelligence - it does replace a professional that could do it, but that professional does not have to apply too much proficiency and cleverness to do its job. It is improper AI. I think you're underselling how much mental work is required to solve complex arithmetic. Yes, it's simple for a computer, but (1) even basic computers are extremely complex in absolute terms, and (2) even the most complex computing tasks could be considered simple once you break them down far enough—for example, a large language model is "just" fancy matrix multiplication. So I feel like there's a "sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" element here. Something becomes AI once it seems sufficiently advanced. But then time passes and it doesn't feel that advanced anymore. I understand that human language doesn't always have a super precise definition, and I'm not trying to be pedantic. I think the term "artificial intelligence" is under-specified to the point of having virtually no meaning. To the extent that it is useful—obviously, a lot of people are using it conversation, so something is getting communicated—it's because it's possible to infer from context what someone is referring to (ie "the student used AI to write her essay" is clearly referring to an LLM, not Eliza). We'd all be better off if we used words that describe what we're actually talking about.
  - mdp2021 4mo ago
    But I am not sure the point is clear. There are different levels - and in fact, matrix multiplication is "easy", matrix multiplication of what (which architecture) is not. Defining a procedure for arithmetic is easy. Implementing it in silicon is not. To carry on the procedure for the former has low relevance to intelligence. To carry on the job of the latter does have high relevance to intelligence. If the latter is performed by a professional it is intelligence. If it is performed by an algorithm it is artificial intelligence. "Automating finding out good ways to implement ALUs" is AI; the ALUs running are not. So, studying AI, asking ourselves which new "devices" (abstract sense) we can find so that our algorithms have aspects of cleverness, is productive as it simply and plainly pushes, invests in the production of that class of algorithms. Surely there is a continuity between "sort" and "genetic alg." - but the direction counts, it is in that direction that we strived to produce them producers. So, it's very much not about the complexity of the product («sufficiently advanced technology»): it is in the complexity of the intermediate that built the final product, when that intermediate is not human. The pocket calculator is majestic, yes - but there is the strong point: it was human made. That is human intelligence at work. Study how to have it blueprinted by a machine, and if it works properly, you'll attribute a simulation of intelligence to the automated blueprinter - that is artificial intelligence. > used words that describe what we're actually talking about Look, people who follow me here know I place radical importance to language and to the awareness of language. It should be one of the aspects I would be most dreaded for. Surely, most people are unaware of what they say to a large extent. But in the case of "Artificial Intelligence", it seems you are underplaying the concept of directions - "simple algorithms" vs "advanced algorithms"; "houses" vs "skyscrapers"; "flying machines" vs "air force fighters". There is continuity and yet different position. And intelligence surely can be implemented at different levels. Another thing (I am strongly selecting what I could reply, and I am forced to be concise). There is also a concept of "unintelligence" - the dire opposite of intelligence is also a thing (if Eliza is ~0, you can go below that). Understanding what intelligence is helps recognize its opposite, which is an experienced pitfall in the area.

mdp2021 4mo ago

> is a simple desk calculator a form of "AI" If what it does is "taking care of the carry", it represents a pretty minimal requirement for intelligence - it does replace a professional that could do it, but that professional does not have to apply too much proficiency and cleverness to do its job. It is improper AI. > what type of software isn't AI That which would not correspond to the job of an intelligent entity. Maybe blitting bitmaps around a screen? As I tried to convey, it is more of a matter of perspective: the area of "implementing ways to solve problems as an intelligent entity would". It is a discipline that intersects others - engineering, logic, brain science, philosophy, epistemology, maybe again economics (as "the science of optimality and efficiency" - as an intelligent solver would do)... Consider it a special discipline that spans many other realms.

Wowfunhappy 4mo ago
> Maybe blitting bitmaps around a screen? Okay, that makes sense. Even so: > If what it does is "taking care of the carry", it represents a pretty minimal requirement for intelligence - it does replace a professional that could do it, but that professional does not have to apply too much proficiency and cleverness to do its job. It is improper AI. I think you're underselling how much mental work is required to solve complex arithmetic. Yes, it's simple for a computer, but (1) even basic computers are extremely complex in absolute terms, and (2) even the most complex computing tasks could be considered simple once you break them down far enough—for example, a large language model is "just" fancy matrix multiplication. So I feel like there's a "sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" element here. Something becomes AI once it seems sufficiently advanced. But then time passes and it doesn't feel that advanced anymore. I understand that human language doesn't always have a super precise definition, and I'm not trying to be pedantic. I think the term "artificial intelligence" is under-specified to the point of having virtually no meaning. To the extent that it is useful—obviously, a lot of people are using it conversation, so something is getting communicated—it's because it's possible to infer from context what someone is referring to (ie "the student used AI to write her essay" is clearly referring to an LLM, not Eliza). We'd all be better off if we used words that describe what we're actually talking about.
- mdp2021 4mo ago
  But I am not sure the point is clear. There are different levels - and in fact, matrix multiplication is "easy", matrix multiplication of what (which architecture) is not. Defining a procedure for arithmetic is easy. Implementing it in silicon is not. To carry on the procedure for the former has low relevance to intelligence. To carry on the job of the latter does have high relevance to intelligence. If the latter is performed by a professional it is intelligence. If it is performed by an algorithm it is artificial intelligence. "Automating finding out good ways to implement ALUs" is AI; the ALUs running are not. So, studying AI, asking ourselves which new "devices" (abstract sense) we can find so that our algorithms have aspects of cleverness, is productive as it simply and plainly pushes, invests in the production of that class of algorithms. Surely there is a continuity between "sort" and "genetic alg." - but the direction counts, it is in that direction that we strived to produce them producers. So, it's very much not about the complexity of the product («sufficiently advanced technology»): it is in the complexity of the intermediate that built the final product, when that intermediate is not human. The pocket calculator is majestic, yes - but there is the strong point: it was human made. That is human intelligence at work. Study how to have it blueprinted by a machine, and if it works properly, you'll attribute a simulation of intelligence to the automated blueprinter - that is artificial intelligence. > used words that describe what we're actually talking about Look, people who follow me here know I place radical importance to language and to the awareness of language. It should be one of the aspects I would be most dreaded for. Surely, most people are unaware of what they say to a large extent. But in the case of "Artificial Intelligence", it seems you are underplaying the concept of directions - "simple algorithms" vs "advanced algorithms"; "houses" vs "skyscrapers"; "flying machines" vs "air force fighters". There is continuity and yet different position. And intelligence surely can be implemented at different levels. Another thing (I am strongly selecting what I could reply, and I am forced to be concise). There is also a concept of "unintelligence" - the dire opposite of intelligence is also a thing (if Eliza is ~0, you can go below that). Understanding what intelligence is helps recognize its opposite, which is an experienced pitfall in the area.