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European fealty to the US has existed for decades.

by pydry 4mo ago

specproc 4mo ago
Number one issue of our times. I'm eternally frustrated discussion of this basic fact of our political lives is near zero in public discourse.
- embedding-shape 4mo ago
  Where you live? In both Spain and Sweden it's a fairly common topic in public discourse already, about how to move away from a bunch of US dependencies and so on.
  - specproc 4mo ago
    In the 51st state.
    - embedding-shape 4mo ago
      Ah, so just your average HN eurobashing not based in any reality. Cheers for confirming :)
    - CalRobert 4mo ago
      ... Ireland?
  - jurgenburgen 4mo ago
    Also in Finland and even in EU circles. Trump threatening to annex Greenland really woke up a lot of people. Tariffs didn’t help. Even my parents who speak no English and aren’t spending time in US-based social media have taken a break from hating Russia for the Ukraine invasion to talking about how we need to get rid of the dependency on the US. This boat is turning slowly but it won’t turn back anymore.
    - pydry 4mo ago
      [flagged]
      - mopsi 4mo ago
        There was nothing "American-led" about the fact that societies that had been forced by Russia into submission for the entirety of the Cold War rushed toward whatever alliances they could to prevent the same thing from ever happening again. Poland even threatened to mobilize the Polish-Americans to tank Clinton's re-election if he tried to block Poland's entry into NATO, that's how "American-led" it was. Not to mention how ridiculous the narrative of "provocation" is, I can almost hear "provokatsiya, provokatsiya" in Putin's weak and whiny old-man voice. Entry into NATO meant that NATO spent billions upon billions introducing proper civilian oversight of militaries in the new members, and other key features of first world countries. Former RU foreign minister Kozyrev hits the nail when he calls it free security for Russia.
coffeebeqn 4mo ago
Since the US entered WW2
port11 4mo ago
I think you’ll find that it was mutually beneficial deal that traded soft-power for preferential agreements. As it started to crumble, we’ve begun diversifying and directed our schmoozing to better partners.
CalRobert 4mo ago
True, but it was, until 2008, a somewhat less lopsided relationship. Europe is becoming a museum and a retirement home. Young people leave to make their fortune and maybe return to have a family or avail of healthcare. And while I have nothing against old people my own street in a _very_ family-oriented suburb in the Netherlands is over 50% retirees. Though I see the flow of migrants between the US and Europe has shifted, so there's a net gain of Americans in Europe. I wonder if it's where young people with dreams want to go, or if it's just where people like my in-laws (nice, culturally aware, but no longer very economically productive) who have a few million dollars in their 40's and want a pretty place to retire young, go.
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]

European fealty to the US has existed for decades.

by pydry 4mo ago

European fealty to the US has existed for decades.

Number one issue of our times. I'm eternally frustrated discussion of this basic fact of our political lives is near zero in public discourse.

embedding-shape 4mo ago
Where you live? In both Spain and Sweden it's a fairly common topic in public discourse already, about how to move away from a bunch of US dependencies and so on.
- specproc 4mo ago
  In the 51st state.
  - embedding-shape 4mo ago
    Ah, so just your average HN eurobashing not based in any reality. Cheers for confirming :)
  - CalRobert 4mo ago
    ... Ireland?
- jurgenburgen 4mo ago
  Also in Finland and even in EU circles. Trump threatening to annex Greenland really woke up a lot of people. Tariffs didn’t help. Even my parents who speak no English and aren’t spending time in US-based social media have taken a break from hating Russia for the Ukraine invasion to talking about how we need to get rid of the dependency on the US. This boat is turning slowly but it won’t turn back anymore.
  - pydry 4mo ago
    [flagged]
    - mopsi 4mo ago
      There was nothing "American-led" about the fact that societies that had been forced by Russia into submission for the entirety of the Cold War rushed toward whatever alliances they could to prevent the same thing from ever happening again. Poland even threatened to mobilize the Polish-Americans to tank Clinton's re-election if he tried to block Poland's entry into NATO, that's how "American-led" it was. Not to mention how ridiculous the narrative of "provocation" is, I can almost hear "provokatsiya, provokatsiya" in Putin's weak and whiny old-man voice. Entry into NATO meant that NATO spent billions upon billions introducing proper civilian oversight of militaries in the new members, and other key features of first world countries. Former RU foreign minister Kozyrev hits the nail when he calls it free security for Russia.

coffeebeqn 4mo ago

Since the US entered WW2

port11 4mo ago

I think you’ll find that it was mutually beneficial deal that traded soft-power for preferential agreements. As it started to crumble, we’ve begun diversifying and directed our schmoozing to better partners.

CalRobert 4mo ago

True, but it was, until 2008, a somewhat less lopsided relationship. Europe is becoming a museum and a retirement home. Young people leave to make their fortune and maybe return to have a family or avail of healthcare. And while I have nothing against old people my own street in a _very_ family-oriented suburb in the Netherlands is over 50% retirees. Though I see the flow of migrants between the US and Europe has shifted, so there's a net gain of Americans in Europe. I wonder if it's where young people with dreams want to go, or if it's just where people like my in-laws (nice, culturally aware, but no longer very economically productive) who have a few million dollars in their 40's and want a pretty place to retire young, go.

deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]