4 ms·

Export control is not illegal where are you coming up with this stuff? Claiming ignorance is a good way to pay tens of millions of $ in fines or do prison time

Export control is not illegal where are you coming up with this stuff? Claiming ignorance is a good way to pay tens of millions of $ in fines or do prison time. Here's one from TWO DAYS AGO: https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/manager-us-freight-forwarding-company-sentenced-18-months-prison-circumventing-export https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/manager-us-freight-forw... She will be doing 18 months in federal lockup. The people in charge of enforcing US export law are worse than city building inspectors and the penalties are orders of magnitude more severe. They're not people you want to mess with, ignore, or pretend you didn't know the rules.

sethammons 4mo ago
> As described in court filings, from at least December 2022 through December 2024, Mazulina conspired with Russian freight forwarding companies and others to unlawfully ship controlled items, including industrial oil and gas equipment, from the United States to Russia, through intermediary countries. At one point, in June 2023, Mazulina told colleagues that her clients were paying through bank accounts in third party countries because “[m]ost of [her] clients [were] currently sanctioned with USA.” Mazulina attempted to conceal the unlawful scheme by submitting and causing the submission of false export documents to the U.S. government, which omitted the information that the goods were destined for Russia. That feels materially different than a software program released in the open domestic market. And while it feels different, the government would apparently disagree: https://exportcontrol.lbl.gov/training/export-control-overview/ https://exportcontrol.lbl.gov/training/export-control-overvi... Distribution of software to a foreign national within the US is an explicit proviso of the law. That is a wild law and I am surprised it stands.
- polski-g 4mo ago
  Anthropic doesn't have the right to release weapons technologies on the open Internet, that's the point. Lockheed doesn't whine that they aren't allowed to sell their products for a $20/mo subscription to everyone with a pulse.
  - myko 4mo ago
    > doesn't have the right to release weapons technologies true but that isn't what we're talking about here
    - polski-g 4mo ago
      Then why did Dario say that their product was like nuclear material? https://coincentral.com/anthropic-ceo-says-ai-could-be-as-dangerous-as-nuclear-weapons-says-the-law-needs-to-catch-up/ https://coincentral.com/anthropic-ceo-says-ai-could-be-as-da...
itopaloglu83 4mo ago
I think it’s a general misconception with folks that export controls only apply to weapons, forgetting that it applies to many high-end manufacturing and technology. I’m surprised about some of the reactions, but again anyone who has a security clearance wouldn’t touch any of this discussion with a ten-foot pole also.
deleted 4mo ago
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mlinsey 4mo ago
I'm not sure where in my post you thought I was suggesting either ignoring an export control or that all export controls are illegal. Export controls are governed by the Export Control Reform Act of 2018. The procedures the government must follow to enact a rule is defined by the Administrative Procedures Act. It's not a slam-dunk case, but I think there are significant questions around the arbitrary nature of the approved company list, the control restricting US-based permanent resident employees from accessing models, and how the rule was enacted in general which would make a viable case. Suing the government saying that APA was not correctly followed or that the export control in question does not comply with the ECRA will absolutely not get you put in prison, that's not the kind of country we live in and honestly I have no clue what you're talking about.

sethammons 4mo ago

> As described in court filings, from at least December 2022 through December 2024, Mazulina conspired with Russian freight forwarding companies and others to unlawfully ship controlled items, including industrial oil and gas equipment, from the United States to Russia, through intermediary countries. At one point, in June 2023, Mazulina told colleagues that her clients were paying through bank accounts in third party countries because “[m]ost of [her] clients [were] currently sanctioned with USA.” Mazulina attempted to conceal the unlawful scheme by submitting and causing the submission of false export documents to the U.S. government, which omitted the information that the goods were destined for Russia. That feels materially different than a software program released in the open domestic market. And while it feels different, the government would apparently disagree: https://exportcontrol.lbl.gov/training/export-control-overview/ https://exportcontrol.lbl.gov/training/export-control-overvi... Distribution of software to a foreign national within the US is an explicit proviso of the law. That is a wild law and I am surprised it stands.

polski-g 4mo ago
Anthropic doesn't have the right to release weapons technologies on the open Internet, that's the point. Lockheed doesn't whine that they aren't allowed to sell their products for a $20/mo subscription to everyone with a pulse.
- myko 4mo ago
  > doesn't have the right to release weapons technologies true but that isn't what we're talking about here
  - polski-g 4mo ago
    Then why did Dario say that their product was like nuclear material? https://coincentral.com/anthropic-ceo-says-ai-could-be-as-dangerous-as-nuclear-weapons-says-the-law-needs-to-catch-up/ https://coincentral.com/anthropic-ceo-says-ai-could-be-as-da...

itopaloglu83 4mo ago

I think it’s a general misconception with folks that export controls only apply to weapons, forgetting that it applies to many high-end manufacturing and technology. I’m surprised about some of the reactions, but again anyone who has a security clearance wouldn’t touch any of this discussion with a ten-foot pole also.

deleted 4mo ago

[deleted]

mlinsey 4mo ago

I'm not sure where in my post you thought I was suggesting either ignoring an export control or that all export controls are illegal. Export controls are governed by the Export Control Reform Act of 2018. The procedures the government must follow to enact a rule is defined by the Administrative Procedures Act. It's not a slam-dunk case, but I think there are significant questions around the arbitrary nature of the approved company list, the control restricting US-based permanent resident employees from accessing models, and how the rule was enacted in general which would make a viable case. Suing the government saying that APA was not correctly followed or that the export control in question does not comply with the ECRA will absolutely not get you put in prison, that's not the kind of country we live in and honestly I have no clue what you're talking about.