4 ms·

If you have no need for Anthropic/OpenAI's frontier model capability, you may be better served with an open-weight model that can't be taken away. Edit: > GPT

• paxys 4mo ago
  Unless you are hosting it yourself on your own infrastructure it absolutely can be taken away.
  • amunozo 4mo ago
    But you have multiple providers, not just one.
    • cyanydeez 4mo ago
      I'm sure he's referring to the tightening of internet controls around social media as an extrapolation to controlling websites, etc.
      • logicchains 4mo ago
        Even in that case it can't be taken away; GPT and Claude are banned in China yet there's still a huge black market for tokens.
    • paxys 4mo ago
      And every single one of those providers would buckle under government pressure. Fable itself is hosted on all major cloud providers. How many offer it today?
      • minimaxir 4mo ago
        The providers on OpenRouter are not all in the US.
        • paxys 4mo ago
          That doesn’t mean they are immune to US laws. If they want to continue to operate in the largest market in the world they will fall in line. And if you are a legit American business you aren’t going to illegally bypass import/export controls.
      • svachalek 4mo ago
        More importantly, the download is out there. You can download it yourself today, and if it's that important to you, you can buy the hardware too.
      • eli 4mo ago
        This seems a little fanciful. There's really no comparison between a model that Anthropic allows Google and Amazon to host with one that has been downloaded hundreds of thousands of times and has dozens of public inference providers.
        • Art9681 4mo ago
          I don't think they "allow" Google or Amazon to host them so much as Anthropic itself is deploying and managing their services on multiple cloud providers just like every other global scale business. Even the models served via OpenRouter are just being routed to compute under Anthropic control. Same with OpenAI. They aren't going to hand the world's most valuable intellectual property at the moment to some third party to run independently. Now for the Chinese models on OpenRouter, yea. Those providers could be legit. Or it could be a failed crypto mining operation pivoting to providing AI compute. Who knows.
  • GaggiX 4mo ago
    Popular open models on Openrouter have dozens of providers.
  • atherton94027 4mo ago
    For all intents and purposes you'll be able to move an open weight model wherever you want. I really dislike this rhetoric, you sound like the FSF guys who are like "you're not free until you're running coreboot with zero binary blobs". Sure they have a point but also, most people are fine running regular linux.
    • adrianN 4mo ago
      Most FSF guys actually have very nuanced views on the topic and you’re doing everyone a disservice by reducing it to an extremist sound bite.
      • ffsm8 4mo ago
        Thankfully he didn't say that they're all like that. Instead he pointed out the few that are as a well known example of similar behavior. If you reread the comment with a fresh mind you'll notice that you misunderstood what he wrote
        • citadel_melon 4mo ago
          When attacking archetypes of people, there is some responsibility to make clear who you’re attacking and why, even to someone who’s not being hyper-open-minded. At least if you want them to learn from you: which may or may not be your goal. When you attack/signal you’re on the offensive, it is foolish to believe that they won’t knee-jerk attack back and become closed minded at least a little. Regardless, the “misinterpretation” of the parent comment is actually a plausible interpretation. I suspend my judgement on what the actual “correct” interpretation of the original comment is: there are too many plausible interpretations to deductively decide. But I do know that since they first comment brought up a contentious issue, they should have put more work into crafting their message so there aren’t so many plausible interpretations that are contradictory. Or alternatively, they should have specified more precisely who they were talking about without a shadow of a doubt. That is if the commenter cared to be properly interpreted, but that may not be their goal. There are many reasonable reasons why that wouldn’t be their goal.
  • GTP 4mo ago
    Still, with the same model being served by multiple providers, it is much less likely to disappear entirely, even if you would like to keep using a cloud provider. Worst-case scenario, you change providers. Or you use OpenRouter as a proxy.
  • dgellow 4mo ago
    There is actual market competition to host open models. If one provider stops offering a model you likely can find another provider that will
    • deleted 4mo ago
      [deleted]
  • supern0va 4mo ago
    >Unless you're running Linux yourself, it can absolutely be taken away.
    • Zambyte 4mo ago
      Yes. The difference is obviously that full, fat Linux runs on a superset of anything a layperson would call a computer, and can be built from source on roughly the same set of hardware. Running the full, fat Deepseek (as in the 1.6T model, unquantized) is too big to run on anything a layperson would call a computer, and being able to actually build it is even harder.
      • supern0va 4mo ago
        It's famously difficult to find people willing to rent you time on big computers over the internet.
        • Zambyte 4mo ago
          Other people's computers famously can't be taken away.
          • supern0va 4mo ago
            You're right, there is an all powerful wizard who can take away all the world's computers. You got me. There's a reason Yudkowsky only thinks AI can be stopped by literal missile strikes against data centers.
            • deleted 4mo ago
              [deleted]
  • theptip 4mo ago
    No. As long as you downloaded the weights, you can run them somewhere.
  • koolala 4mo ago
    No it can't you can take it where ever you want. It is yours not theirs.
  • greenavocado 4mo ago
    I just want personal agency
• RALaBarge 4mo ago
  It’s my daily driver in opencode
• lmf4lol 4mo ago
  We rolled out Deepseek V4 Flash to our customers and it was an absolute disaster, unfortunately. It was not able to follow simple commands, always "forgot" to do things, lied consistently about its work, and so on. It was pretty good though on on-off work, like summarizing something or executing simple commands, so we are experimenting now with using it for subagent work with clear instructions and hand off. Deepseek V4 Pro on the other hand is a really really good main driver and we have a lot of success using it. Its not Opus or GPT-5.5 level but on its way. Kimi 2.6 as well btw.. so there is already quite some choice.
  • wolttam 4mo ago
    I found Flash to be a bit shaky as well until I started using it in xhigh/max thinking effort, then it became my daily driver. It runs quite well on a couple of DGX Sparks. I still wish it was a little better, but there's hope for another model checkpoint (maybe with some of GLM 5.2's goodness distilled into it, that would be nice).
    • girvo 4mo ago
      > I found Flash to be a bit shaky as well until I started using it in xhigh/max thinking effort This is true for most of the open weight chinese models, to be fair. They're really built around long reasoning chains. Also you're making me want a second Spark-alike :') but they're so expensive...
  • mark_l_watson 4mo ago
    Your experience with DeepSeek v4 Flash differs from mine: while I usually use DeepSeek v4 Pro (that is also inexpensive), I find using DeepSeek v4 Flash with the Fireworks.ai API and properly configured OpenCode to be very good for routine work, and it is pleasantly very fast. Admittedly I use DeepSeek v4 Pro for difficult problems. I encourage people to at least once a month to do a quick evaluation with their own problems and workflows. Estimate cost as both what inference tokens cost for a task and also how much human effort it takes to get required results. I disregard benchmarks.
    • 4mo ago
• ai_fry_ur_brain 4mo ago
  Deepseek V4 flash is actually useless. Sorry I've tested it after seeing so many comments like these. On Open router when trying to get it to output tool calls for creating tables, instead of providing the structured output correctly it was sending me peoples dropbox links and other image sharing site urls that led to pictures of random tables... Llms seem to only impress a certain type of person. Hint, this type of person also was really excited about NFTs.
• nimchimpsky 4mo ago
  [dead]
• 127 4mo ago
  DeepSeek V4 Pro is only ~3-4x as expensive as Flash. It won't replace GPT-5.5 (nowhere near) but I've been using the $20 sub to punch through tough cases and use Pro for rest.
• lionkor 4mo ago
  deepseek has no part of their privacy policy on their API about training. They are 100% training on every single word you give it. If your customers are fine with that, your IP is not interesting, then you can use it.
  • radicality 4mo ago
    Though with open models you have a lot of choice where to get it from. I see like ~15 providers here with various logging/ZDR policies, so pick whatever mix of price to features you want: https://openrouter.ai/deepseek/deepseek-v4-flash https://openrouter.ai/deepseek/deepseek-v4-flash
  • anon373839 4mo ago
    You don’t have to access Deepseek through Deepseek. You can self-host it and your data never leaves your premises.
  • nextaccountic 4mo ago
    I don't believe a single word from AI companies, no matter where they are from. Sourcing their training data is run like genuine criminal enterprises - last year Anthropic settled for 1.5 billion, and and if they settled so quickly it might mean what we would see in court is even worse.
  • wolttam 4mo ago
    I self-host Flash actually, but yeah. When I use their API I use it knowing that they probably train on the data, and knowing that it's probably used to improve future iterations of their models. But I use their API extremely rarely lately, because local Flash is good enough for me the vast majority of the time
    • rubicon33 4mo ago
      And you’ve opened wireshark and verified the model is sending absolutely nothing? Not caching and sending later, etc?