7 ms·

I'm Swedish, but never heard of Örebropartiet before. I tried looking into their website and it doesn't say a lot. Translated from Swedish wikipedia: --- Örebr

I'm Swedish, but never heard of Örebropartiet before. I tried looking into their website and it doesn't say a lot. Translated from Swedish wikipedia: --- Örebropartiet was founded by Markus Allard in the spring of 2014, when he was recently expelled from the Left Party and the Young Left. [...] Among the party's main issues are reduced politicians' salaries, reduced bureaucracy, civil servant responsibility, assimilation policy and the repatriation of people who do not adapt. --- I think it is very reasonable to demand that people try to integrate when coming to a new country - learn the language, get into the culture. As a Swedish person I think this is missing from our integration politics, which is an often talked about topic in the last years. In the end this is a political question and sadly instead of engaging in dialogue the reaction to these questions feels like it most often leads to polarization and division. Inclusion means also including people with different beliefs and respecting their opinions, even if we don't share them. Through understanding comes empathy. Can recommend "The Righteous Mind" by moral psychologist Jonathan Haidt who discusses this in a book. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Righteous_Mind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Righteous_Mind Fun fact: we get a dopamine release when taking an opposing stance and then seeing (subjective) proof of our stance. It requires self-discipline and fighting your impulses to avoid polarization.

AlecSchueler 3mo ago
> I think it is very reasonable to demand that people try to integrate when coming to a new country - learn the language, get into the culture. What kind of things might be involved in a mandate for people to "get into the culture?"
- port11 3mo ago
  It’s a hot topic, but in Belgium some people are taught how to take the bus, do their taxes, and not harass women. One of my Dutch teachers led the integration course and said this stuff was really difficult to land. If you come from a culture of groping women, not doing is gonna be a challenge. I get it. But we’ve also built mosques and have pagan festivals and allow public servants to wear their choice of religious attire. I think it’s a balance, but nobody is ever happy with wherever you set the balance. When I learn the local language, I’m happier; it’s nice to talk to people. Not everyone agrees. Tja.
  - AlecSchueler 3mo ago
    TIL Belgians don't grope women.
    - port11 3mo ago
      Or pretend not to, at school. YMMV.
ndsipa_pomu 3mo ago
I don't think it's reasonable to "demand" integration. What should happen is that the existing cultures should be open and welcoming enough so that new-comers want to take part. Also, I like the idea of immigrants bringing their culture with them (and in some cases, that may be the last representation of that culture) and welcoming people to learn about it. Multi-culturalism should be about championing different cultures and not forcing everyone into a cultural homogeneity.
- port11 3mo ago
  GP literally addresses your points. I think we’re very welcoming in most of Europe, adopt others’ traditions, and are not too imposing. Just, you know, leave women alone and don’t aim fireworks at ambulances. Dismissing any amount of integration is chicanery. We’re pro-social creatures, and knowing the lay of the land makes your life better.
  - em-bee 3mo ago
    compared to the rest of the world europe is absolutely not welcoming. heck, even as a native german if you move from one region in germany to another you are treated as an unwelcome outsider. less so in big cities where you are more anonymous but still. if you are lucky you can find "your tribe" and your children may be accepted if they grow up there. the only places in germany where i ever felt welcome was linux user groups, and other fringe groups which as a whole had more of an outsider status.
    - dag100 3mo ago
      > heck, even as a native german if you move from one region in germany to another you are treated as an unwelcome outsider. less so in big cities where you are more anonymous but still. if you are lucky you can find "your tribe" and your children may be accepted if they grow up there. This is standard for most of the world. Really, only some countries, all of them developed, are exceptions to this.
      - 3mo ago
card_zero 3mo ago
Don't we also get a dopamine release from empathy, or is it just no fun?
- Matl 3mo ago
  Depends on if Atlas Shrugged is your Bible or not.
  - georgemcbay 3mo ago
    And for anyone who treats Atlas Shrugged as a Bible, I hope you're aware that Alan Greenspan was almost surely more of a true believer than you are, and his legacy is pretty well summarized by having to admit that his practically religious belief in Randian ideology led to the most severe global economic downturn since the Great Depression. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5lZPWNFizQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5lZPWNFizQ Of course after his admission modern Objectivists began to predictably denounce Greenspan (Ayn Rand's favorite boy) with various "No True Scotsman" arguments.
- lightbulbish 3mo ago
  I’ve read a few books about dopamine/motivation/common neurotransmitters and this has never come up. In my amateurish view I think empathy is more connected to oxytocin (which afaik does release during social connections, which The book ”The molecule of more” covers a bit).
raffael_de 3mo ago
I not just agree ... I can't even fathom how one can not agree with your comment.
throwa356262 3mo ago
Would this change your mind? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48704714 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48704714 Source https://x.com/AllardKlipp/status/2060109271635771457 https://x.com/AllardKlipp/status/2060109271635771457
Aachen 3mo ago
> Translated from Swedish Wikipedia [...] I think it is very reasonable When I looked into this party when news broke a few days ago, I was surprised to find that the English article was comparatively longer and included the more appalling statements. Seems worrying that their narrative on the native version appears to be working
framapotari 3mo ago
> Inclusion means also including people with different beliefs and respecting their opinions, even if we don't share them. Does this apply to immigrants?

AlecSchueler 3mo ago

> I think it is very reasonable to demand that people try to integrate when coming to a new country - learn the language, get into the culture. What kind of things might be involved in a mandate for people to "get into the culture?"

port11 3mo ago
It’s a hot topic, but in Belgium some people are taught how to take the bus, do their taxes, and not harass women. One of my Dutch teachers led the integration course and said this stuff was really difficult to land. If you come from a culture of groping women, not doing is gonna be a challenge. I get it. But we’ve also built mosques and have pagan festivals and allow public servants to wear their choice of religious attire. I think it’s a balance, but nobody is ever happy with wherever you set the balance. When I learn the local language, I’m happier; it’s nice to talk to people. Not everyone agrees. Tja.
- AlecSchueler 3mo ago
  TIL Belgians don't grope women.
  - port11 3mo ago
    Or pretend not to, at school. YMMV.

ndsipa_pomu 3mo ago

I don't think it's reasonable to "demand" integration. What should happen is that the existing cultures should be open and welcoming enough so that new-comers want to take part. Also, I like the idea of immigrants bringing their culture with them (and in some cases, that may be the last representation of that culture) and welcoming people to learn about it. Multi-culturalism should be about championing different cultures and not forcing everyone into a cultural homogeneity.

port11 3mo ago
GP literally addresses your points. I think we’re very welcoming in most of Europe, adopt others’ traditions, and are not too imposing. Just, you know, leave women alone and don’t aim fireworks at ambulances. Dismissing any amount of integration is chicanery. We’re pro-social creatures, and knowing the lay of the land makes your life better.
- em-bee 3mo ago
  compared to the rest of the world europe is absolutely not welcoming. heck, even as a native german if you move from one region in germany to another you are treated as an unwelcome outsider. less so in big cities where you are more anonymous but still. if you are lucky you can find "your tribe" and your children may be accepted if they grow up there. the only places in germany where i ever felt welcome was linux user groups, and other fringe groups which as a whole had more of an outsider status.
  - dag100 3mo ago
    > heck, even as a native german if you move from one region in germany to another you are treated as an unwelcome outsider. less so in big cities where you are more anonymous but still. if you are lucky you can find "your tribe" and your children may be accepted if they grow up there. This is standard for most of the world. Really, only some countries, all of them developed, are exceptions to this.
    - 3mo ago

card_zero 3mo ago

Don't we also get a dopamine release from empathy, or is it just no fun?

Matl 3mo ago
Depends on if Atlas Shrugged is your Bible or not.
- georgemcbay 3mo ago
  And for anyone who treats Atlas Shrugged as a Bible, I hope you're aware that Alan Greenspan was almost surely more of a true believer than you are, and his legacy is pretty well summarized by having to admit that his practically religious belief in Randian ideology led to the most severe global economic downturn since the Great Depression. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5lZPWNFizQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5lZPWNFizQ Of course after his admission modern Objectivists began to predictably denounce Greenspan (Ayn Rand's favorite boy) with various "No True Scotsman" arguments.
lightbulbish 3mo ago
I’ve read a few books about dopamine/motivation/common neurotransmitters and this has never come up. In my amateurish view I think empathy is more connected to oxytocin (which afaik does release during social connections, which The book ”The molecule of more” covers a bit).

raffael_de 3mo ago

I not just agree ... I can't even fathom how one can not agree with your comment.

throwa356262 3mo ago

Would this change your mind? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48704714 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48704714 Source https://x.com/AllardKlipp/status/2060109271635771457 https://x.com/AllardKlipp/status/2060109271635771457

Aachen 3mo ago

> Translated from Swedish Wikipedia [...] I think it is very reasonable When I looked into this party when news broke a few days ago, I was surprised to find that the English article was comparatively longer and included the more appalling statements. Seems worrying that their narrative on the native version appears to be working

framapotari 3mo ago

> Inclusion means also including people with different beliefs and respecting their opinions, even if we don't share them. Does this apply to immigrants?