4 ms·

No, I'm fairly sure you could not find a quote like that about the USSR.

by gpm 4mo ago

deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]
ShinyLeftPad 4mo ago
You would be wrong. The people you described were called "тунеядцы" in USSR. With a possible exception of bureaucrats who existed as a result of centralized government but were also called "a barrier for the working class" by Lenin etc. I also highly doubt USSR would accommodate people who move in and don't bother to integrate into the culture and speak Russian. Ask people from entire countries where Moscow did Russification, and those people didn't even move in from outside they already lived there.
- int_19h 3mo ago
  > I also highly doubt USSR would accommodate people who move in and don't bother to integrate into the culture and speak Russian USSR was schizophrenic in that regard. Early on, it had https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korenizatsiia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korenizatsiia, which was quite literally about de-russifying the local elites and promoting local languages. Then Stalin did a hard 180 on that, like he did on so many other things (e.g. re-criminalizing abortion and homosexuality, or reintroducing paid high school). I don't think it's unreasonable to argue that under Stalin, the USSR truly switched from being a left totalitarian dictatorship to right totalitarian.
pigpop 4mo ago
The trial of Joseph Brodsky is a fascinating insight into the workings of the USSR https://www.nytimes.com/1972/10/01/archives/the-trial-of-joseph-brodsky.html https://www.nytimes.com/1972/10/01/archives/the-trial-of-jos... They had strong opinions of what was deemed "socially useful" work and were not above abolishing those pursuits they deemed to be useless. All able-bodied people were expected to work (in approved roles) and you would be provided a job if you couldn't find one but if you refused to work they would deem you a "social parasite" and prosecute you if you didn't reform your behavior. Somehow, people seem to forget that Marxism is an ideology of workers.
- jalapenoj 4mo ago
  >Somehow, people seem to forget that Marxism is an ideology of workers. Not really, Marx and company were nobles, lawyers, etc. The ideology concerns provoking a civil war and taking over, workers rights is just the rhetoric to cause the revolution. The worker’s paradise never materializes because it’s not actually about that.
  - pigpop 4mo ago
    This is true but the ideology was packaged and sold as a movement for the working class. My observation had more to do with the modern interpretation of it as somehow being a license to not work, which appears comical when compared with how it was instituted. Not all of the component parts of the ideology are necessarily false due to their introduction and popularization by Marx. Personally, I find his writings obtuse and his beliefs abhorrent. There is, however, merit in the idea that the state should benefit its people, a large percentage of which are the productive working class, but it shouldn't be ruled by the working class. The state is its people and their culture, it shouldn't oppose their interests or subjugate and exploit them for the advancement of ideals alien to them.
    - int_19h 3mo ago
      > but it shouldn't be ruled by the working class Why not, though? I mean, if you subscribe to democracy, the only way this would not be true is if said democracy was somehow subverted into a caste system where only some people are de facto eligible to be elected.
  - stogot 4mo ago
    Whoever downvotd you is unaware that the USSR tried a seven day work week. It was not about workers.
    - xanthor 3mo ago
      From "An Evaluation of the Program for Reducing the Workweek in the USSR" > There is considerable evidence that the reduction in hours of work is a basic goal and commitment of the Communist movement and the Soviet state. https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP64B00346R000100200025-6.pdf https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP64B00346R0001002...

No, I'm fairly sure you could not find a quote like that about the USSR.

by gpm 4mo ago

No, I'm fairly sure you could not find a quote like that about the USSR.

deleted 4mo ago

[deleted]

ShinyLeftPad 4mo ago

You would be wrong. The people you described were called "тунеядцы" in USSR. With a possible exception of bureaucrats who existed as a result of centralized government but were also called "a barrier for the working class" by Lenin etc. I also highly doubt USSR would accommodate people who move in and don't bother to integrate into the culture and speak Russian. Ask people from entire countries where Moscow did Russification, and those people didn't even move in from outside they already lived there.

int_19h 3mo ago
> I also highly doubt USSR would accommodate people who move in and don't bother to integrate into the culture and speak Russian USSR was schizophrenic in that regard. Early on, it had https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korenizatsiia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korenizatsiia, which was quite literally about de-russifying the local elites and promoting local languages. Then Stalin did a hard 180 on that, like he did on so many other things (e.g. re-criminalizing abortion and homosexuality, or reintroducing paid high school). I don't think it's unreasonable to argue that under Stalin, the USSR truly switched from being a left totalitarian dictatorship to right totalitarian.

pigpop 4mo ago

The trial of Joseph Brodsky is a fascinating insight into the workings of the USSR https://www.nytimes.com/1972/10/01/archives/the-trial-of-joseph-brodsky.html https://www.nytimes.com/1972/10/01/archives/the-trial-of-jos... They had strong opinions of what was deemed "socially useful" work and were not above abolishing those pursuits they deemed to be useless. All able-bodied people were expected to work (in approved roles) and you would be provided a job if you couldn't find one but if you refused to work they would deem you a "social parasite" and prosecute you if you didn't reform your behavior. Somehow, people seem to forget that Marxism is an ideology of workers.

jalapenoj 4mo ago
>Somehow, people seem to forget that Marxism is an ideology of workers. Not really, Marx and company were nobles, lawyers, etc. The ideology concerns provoking a civil war and taking over, workers rights is just the rhetoric to cause the revolution. The worker’s paradise never materializes because it’s not actually about that.
- pigpop 4mo ago
  This is true but the ideology was packaged and sold as a movement for the working class. My observation had more to do with the modern interpretation of it as somehow being a license to not work, which appears comical when compared with how it was instituted. Not all of the component parts of the ideology are necessarily false due to their introduction and popularization by Marx. Personally, I find his writings obtuse and his beliefs abhorrent. There is, however, merit in the idea that the state should benefit its people, a large percentage of which are the productive working class, but it shouldn't be ruled by the working class. The state is its people and their culture, it shouldn't oppose their interests or subjugate and exploit them for the advancement of ideals alien to them.
  - int_19h 3mo ago
    > but it shouldn't be ruled by the working class Why not, though? I mean, if you subscribe to democracy, the only way this would not be true is if said democracy was somehow subverted into a caste system where only some people are de facto eligible to be elected.
- stogot 4mo ago
  Whoever downvotd you is unaware that the USSR tried a seven day work week. It was not about workers.
  - xanthor 3mo ago
    From "An Evaluation of the Program for Reducing the Workweek in the USSR" > There is considerable evidence that the reduction in hours of work is a basic goal and commitment of the Communist movement and the Soviet state. https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP64B00346R000100200025-6.pdf https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP64B00346R0001002...