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Depending on who's legal fiction you believe, the Roman Empire was only dissolved in 1806 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsdeputationshauptschluss https://en
by fhars 3mo ago
Depending on who's legal fiction you believe, the Roman Empire was only dissolved in 1806 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsdeputationshauptschluss https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsdeputationshauptschluss
- trinix912 3mo agoThat’s the German Holy Roman Empire, not the classical Roman Empire.
- flohofwoe 3mo agoYou could just as well say 1922 because the Ottomans also claimed to be the successor to the Roman Empire, or alternatively 1917, because the Russian Empire did too. The more realistic alternatives are 'around 480', 1204 or 1453 :)
- Alles 3mo agoNeither Holy nor Roman nor an empire
- pjio 3mo agoVoltaire gets quoted so often without ever mentioning that the German word "Reich" has a different meaning than the loose translation "empire". A "Reich" is not necessarily an empire, so no news here.
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- empath75 3mo agoThe Holy Roman Empire considered itself a successor to the Roman Empire, so in this case, it is an exact translation.
- pjio 3mo agoIt's true that the "Heiliges Römisches Reich" (literal translation "Holy Roman Realm") considered itself the successor of the Roman Republic. The English referred to the Roman Republic by what it was in the modern sense: an empire. Therefore its self-proclaimed successor got translated as "Holy Roman Empire", which, unlike the original, it is not.
- empath75 3mo agoAlmost every single statement in this sentence was wrong. It was founded as the Sacrum Imperium -- literally the Holy Empire. "Heiliges Römisches Reich" was a later German translation of the Latin term for it. Charlemagne explicitly had himself crowned as the emperor. It was never in any sense a republic and it never pretended to be.
- pjio 3mo agoIn the Latin phrasing, which they likely used, the word "Imperium" appears. Good point. Still, the original meaning of "Imperium" was slightly different than what it is today. So my point goes more like this: The Germans didn't claim to found an empire in the modern sense, so it's not that surprising that Voltaire pointed out, it isn't one.
- TonyStr 3mo agoThe Roman Empire lives on today. Turkey is the legitimate continuation of the Roman Empire
- flohofwoe 3mo agoMaybe in Erdogans dreams ;) (
- Mr_Minderbinder 3mo agoThat claim rests on their being the successor to another state (the Ottoman Empire) whose claim rests on the right of conquest. “Roman Emperor” was one of the titles of the Ottoman sultans and it received some recognition from both their subjects (who continued to call themselves “Roman” for centuries) and other states.