4 ms·

Who'd have guessed hitting the library would become an act of rebellious defiance

OnionBlender 4mo ago
How is hitting the library an act of rebellious defiance? Getting a library card requires an ID and proof of address. The library then tracks which books you've signed out. Unless you're reading the books inside the library without signing them out.
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
- nathan_compton 4mo ago
  I'm pretty sure I didn't provide an address or an id when I got my library card.
  - Ifkaluva 4mo ago
    In the US? I think you most likely need to provide proof of an address
    - ghaff 4mo ago
      I'm pretty sure I had to provide some proof of residency for a library card from my town or state in the US.
    - gchamonlive 4mo ago
      What if you are homeless? Can you at least sit and read there?
      - Ifkaluva 4mo ago
        Certainly, but I think you need to have a library card to use the computers. I do see folks who look homeless using the computers, so I assume there must be a special accommodation for them. But, if you’re just a regular middle class joe looking for anonymity on the internet, I don’t think the library is the place for you—it’s tied to your library card which knows your address, and anyway what would you want to be private that you would be ok to broadcast in an open library setting? Nobody watching corn or browsing whatever successor to Silk Road. Usually the login screen says something about fairly restrictive terms of use, even for the WiFi on a personal device, and I don’t know if you can install software on the library computers. When I look around at library patrons using the computers, it’s usually lower income folks applying to jobs or similar, and people playing chess.
      - Geezus_42 4mo ago
        You can. You just have to ignore all the privileged people being annoyed that they have to see you. They love posting on Nextdoor about how much they hate homeless people.
    - tayo42 4mo ago
      I think some will just limit the books you can take out at a time if you don't have proof.
- EvanAnderson 4mo ago
  My library, at least, is fanatical about their patron's privacy. I don't know what their retention time is on circulation records, but beyond aggregate statistics for culling materials that aren't circulating I bet it isn't too long. Now I want to go check. My library also only keeps 24 hours of video surveillance because they didn't want to be able to fulfill requests from the cops for footage of patrons. I really liked that. Edit: In the patron portal it permits me to disable "borrowing history" and says it permanently deletes my records. I do contract IT work for them so next time I'm engaged I'll ask about the details. They're moving to Koha later this year (free / open-source ILS) so I could go look at the code to see what it does (which is nice). On the theme of their privacy fanaticism: Over a decade ago the library got a grant to do outdoor public WiFi in the park behind their building. As part of that grant they needed to report the number of distinct users using the WiFi each day. Their UniFi controller tracks MAC addresses of associated stations. I used a query against the underlying MongoDB to get the usage reports to satisfy the grant. To minimize the potential of tracking individual users the library director had me write a script to grovel thru MongoDB, do a SHA-1 hash of each public MAC address tracked concatenated with a randomly-generated salt for that day, then write back the first 48 bits of the hash over the original MAC. The library gets their daily statistics and long-term traffic trend data, they don't double-count associations for the same device in the same day, but they can't track individual people over a span of multiple days. Now that devices randomly-generating MACs are mainstream it's much less necessary. I thought it was really cool she thought this. (The whole salting/hashing bit was my idea. She just wanted to be able to fulfill the grant reporting requirements amd be unable to track people.)
- HoldOnAMinute 4mo ago
  Start your own library. Write your own books. Make your own music.
- StanislavPetrov 4mo ago
  My library card has no picture on it. Me and 100 of my closest friends could easily share the same card.
- doginasuit 4mo ago
  A library is supported by local property taxes, so requiring proof of residence serves a practical purpose. Of course they are going to track loaned books too. This is not the same thing, by any stretch. If they are somehow making that information available beyond the scope of the library system it is a breach of trust.
__MatrixMan__ 4mo ago
Do you know any librarians? Public libraries have always been a bit punk rock.
- TheRoque 4mo ago
  In your country maybe.. In mine it's super boring and intellectual
  - derwiki 4mo ago
    The punk rock is? I would be interested in checking that out! (/s)
- jazz9k 4mo ago
  Punk rock has always been right wing. Libraries are about as far from this as they can get.
  - krapp 4mo ago
    The anti-authoritarian, anti-government, anti-fascist, anti-capitalist music genre punk rock? Always right wing? I mean, Nazis have always been attracted to punk because they like the loud noise but are too stupid to understand lyrics, but they tend to get their shit kicked in by punks more often than not. I don't think that's the same thing.
    - jplusequalt 4mo ago
      I've seen a lot of confidently incorrect takes on this site, but "punk rock is right wing" may be the worst.
      - nephihaha 4mo ago
        Some punk rock is. The idea that it is always on the left was not true, even in the early days.
    - 4mo ago
dredmorbius 4mo ago
"You know what the most dangerous thing in America is, right? N* with a library card." - Brother Mouzone / Ed Burns & David Simon, The Wire (2003) S2E10 "Storm Warnings" The scene is apparently on YT, though ... you'll have to sign in to confirm your age to view it best I can tell: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCioIwagYxM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCioIwagYxM> (If this link works, you'll get the full unbowdlerised quote. For those unfamiliar with the series, the speaker is Black.)

How is hitting the library an act of rebellious defiance? Getting a library card requires an ID and proof of address. The library then tracks which books you've signed out. Unless you're reading the books inside the library without signing them out.

deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]
nathan_compton 4mo ago
I'm pretty sure I didn't provide an address or an id when I got my library card.
- Ifkaluva 4mo ago
  In the US? I think you most likely need to provide proof of an address
  - ghaff 4mo ago
    I'm pretty sure I had to provide some proof of residency for a library card from my town or state in the US.
  - gchamonlive 4mo ago
    What if you are homeless? Can you at least sit and read there?
    - Ifkaluva 4mo ago
      Certainly, but I think you need to have a library card to use the computers. I do see folks who look homeless using the computers, so I assume there must be a special accommodation for them. But, if you’re just a regular middle class joe looking for anonymity on the internet, I don’t think the library is the place for you—it’s tied to your library card which knows your address, and anyway what would you want to be private that you would be ok to broadcast in an open library setting? Nobody watching corn or browsing whatever successor to Silk Road. Usually the login screen says something about fairly restrictive terms of use, even for the WiFi on a personal device, and I don’t know if you can install software on the library computers. When I look around at library patrons using the computers, it’s usually lower income folks applying to jobs or similar, and people playing chess.
    - Geezus_42 4mo ago
      You can. You just have to ignore all the privileged people being annoyed that they have to see you. They love posting on Nextdoor about how much they hate homeless people.
  - tayo42 4mo ago
    I think some will just limit the books you can take out at a time if you don't have proof.
EvanAnderson 4mo ago
My library, at least, is fanatical about their patron's privacy. I don't know what their retention time is on circulation records, but beyond aggregate statistics for culling materials that aren't circulating I bet it isn't too long. Now I want to go check. My library also only keeps 24 hours of video surveillance because they didn't want to be able to fulfill requests from the cops for footage of patrons. I really liked that. Edit: In the patron portal it permits me to disable "borrowing history" and says it permanently deletes my records. I do contract IT work for them so next time I'm engaged I'll ask about the details. They're moving to Koha later this year (free / open-source ILS) so I could go look at the code to see what it does (which is nice). On the theme of their privacy fanaticism: Over a decade ago the library got a grant to do outdoor public WiFi in the park behind their building. As part of that grant they needed to report the number of distinct users using the WiFi each day. Their UniFi controller tracks MAC addresses of associated stations. I used a query against the underlying MongoDB to get the usage reports to satisfy the grant. To minimize the potential of tracking individual users the library director had me write a script to grovel thru MongoDB, do a SHA-1 hash of each public MAC address tracked concatenated with a randomly-generated salt for that day, then write back the first 48 bits of the hash over the original MAC. The library gets their daily statistics and long-term traffic trend data, they don't double-count associations for the same device in the same day, but they can't track individual people over a span of multiple days. Now that devices randomly-generating MACs are mainstream it's much less necessary. I thought it was really cool she thought this. (The whole salting/hashing bit was my idea. She just wanted to be able to fulfill the grant reporting requirements amd be unable to track people.)
HoldOnAMinute 4mo ago
Start your own library. Write your own books. Make your own music.
StanislavPetrov 4mo ago
My library card has no picture on it. Me and 100 of my closest friends could easily share the same card.
doginasuit 4mo ago
A library is supported by local property taxes, so requiring proof of residence serves a practical purpose. Of course they are going to track loaned books too. This is not the same thing, by any stretch. If they are somehow making that information available beyond the scope of the library system it is a breach of trust.

__MatrixMan__ 4mo ago

Do you know any librarians? Public libraries have always been a bit punk rock.

TheRoque 4mo ago
In your country maybe.. In mine it's super boring and intellectual
- derwiki 4mo ago
  The punk rock is? I would be interested in checking that out! (/s)
jazz9k 4mo ago
Punk rock has always been right wing. Libraries are about as far from this as they can get.
- krapp 4mo ago
  The anti-authoritarian, anti-government, anti-fascist, anti-capitalist music genre punk rock? Always right wing? I mean, Nazis have always been attracted to punk because they like the loud noise but are too stupid to understand lyrics, but they tend to get their shit kicked in by punks more often than not. I don't think that's the same thing.
  - jplusequalt 4mo ago
    I've seen a lot of confidently incorrect takes on this site, but "punk rock is right wing" may be the worst.
    - nephihaha 4mo ago
      Some punk rock is. The idea that it is always on the left was not true, even in the early days.
  - 4mo ago

dredmorbius 4mo ago

"You know what the most dangerous thing in America is, right? N* with a library card." - Brother Mouzone / Ed Burns & David Simon, The Wire (2003) S2E10 "Storm Warnings" The scene is apparently on YT, though ... you'll have to sign in to confirm your age to view it best I can tell: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCioIwagYxM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCioIwagYxM> (If this link works, you'll get the full unbowdlerised quote. For those unfamiliar with the series, the speaker is Black.)