3 ms·
Don't glorify Rome too much. It was a slavery based society that progressed sciences, technology and civilization little from what they inherited from the Meso
by Shitty-kitty 3mo ago
Don't glorify Rome too much. It was a slavery based society that progressed sciences, technology and civilization little from what they inherited from the Mesopotamian's/Greeks. Heck written Latin didn't even have punctuation marks, not even spaces. That's because it was only used by slave scribes. The nobility that could write, did so in Greek.
- jazz9k 3mo agoYawn. More rewriting of history to try to remove successful cultures.
- oersted 3mo agoWhat have the Romans ever done for us?
- WalterBright 3mo agoAre you not entertained?
- quibono 3mo ago> a slavery based society As opposed to the Greeks, Parthians, Ptolemaic Egypt and Judea? Unless you mean "fully dependent on slave labour" - then I guess we can mention Sparta and Athens. > that progressed sciences, technology and civilization little from what they inherited from the Mesopotamian's/Greeks What does "little" mean in this context? This is a very fuzzy concept but this doesn't sound right.
- Shitty-kitty 3mo agoSparta is known for little other than their military prowess, which was a necessity for managing their much larger slave population. Athens had a rather strange system of slavery. The majority of slaves, owned by State, earned wages and worked and lived unattended. It was much more similar to indentured-servitude.
- quibono 3mo agoMy point was that Sparta was far more dependent on slave labour for its existence than either Rome or Athens.
- coldtea 3mo ago>Don't glorify Rome too much. It was a slavery based society that progressed sciences, technology and civilization little from what they inherited from the Mesopotamian's/Greeks. It progressed civic life, institutions, law, infrastructure, and other things, a lot. Modern law is a heavy percentage ancient roman law in basis. Slavery-based society doesn't say much for 2 millenia ago. Most where. The US had slavery until less than 2 centuries, and Jim Crow and other such things until less than a century. And still has things like forced prison labor, so let's cut the Romans some fucking slack.
- WalterBright 3mo ago> forced prison labor I'd rather work than be in a cell.
- oersted 3mo agoIf it is forced it is not what you would rather do.
- FergusArgyll 3mo agoYou should read a day in the life of ivan denisovich. In my understanding, the whole book is making your point
- coldtea 3mo agoI'd rather have a civilized prison system with human conditions, instead of an medieval revenge, profiteering, racism and exclusion, a prison-labor complex, and the death penalty - all created, ran, and cheered by bigoted Old Testament-types of human scum. Especially if I get far far worse crime outcomes than countries with much healthier prison systems. But, hey, that's just me.
- WalterBright 3mo agoI'd be content with a prison system that keeps the criminals away from victimizing more people.
- simonebrunozzi 3mo agoIt was one of the most influential civilization in all of recorded history. It's not about glorifying it, or justifying it. I think that a lot of people see it much more "civilized" than many others, before and during it. And perhaps after it too.
- WalterBright 3mo agoWhat civilization would you glorify?
- rayiner 3mo agoIt’s ironic that the civilizations that directly contributed to us sitting here believing in egalitarian democracy, get far more hate for it than the ones that never evolved into egalitarian democracy at all. We are standing on the shoulders of giants and some people can’t see it.
- Shitty-kitty 3mo agoI was talking about its economic system, not politics.
- BigTTYGothGF 3mo ago> progressed sciences, technology and civilization little Roman engineering was pretty darn solid.
- beloch 3mo ago- Go stand in the Hagia Sophia and tell me the Romans did little to improve architecture and engineering. - I won't defend the Roman record on slavery, but I will point out that the Greeks (particularly the Spartans) were slave societies too. - The Greeks were significantly more xenophobic and sexist than the Romans. If you washed up on the shores of ancient Greece, you could never have become a citizen. The Romans were far more tolerant and inclusive. - Putting spaces between words was a medieval innovation. The Greeks wrote in much the same way as the Romans, and that was thanks to the Phoenicians! - Romans revered Greek culture because their city started in a period when Greek colonies were spreading Greek influence throughout the Mediterranean and, specifically, in Italy itself. Greece was to Rome as Rome was to medieval Europeans: A colonizer. ---------- No ancient society smells of roses if you look close enough. However, it's also rare to find ancient societies that expanded and persisted for centuries without being innovative and progressive. The Romans were both awful and great, much like the Greeks, Akkadians, Babylonians, Sumerians, etc. before them.
- Shitty-kitty 3mo agoSparta is not exactly known as the pinnacle of civilization. As for the rest of your comment, you make some good points.
- TheCoelacanth 3mo agoSparta is quite possibly the pinnacle of horribleness for civilization, which is why I think they emphasized that it particularly was a slave society (80%+ slaves and a majority of the remainder were non-citizens).
- bigstrat2003 3mo agoAlso, our own society right now will be someday considered barbaric by our descendants. I don't know what for, but you can bet your bottom dollar it will happen. We should show the people of the past some grace, the same way we might hope the people of the future will show us some grace.
- 3mo ago
- PeterHolzwarth 3mo agoWhat a ridiculously myopic take. Slavery was the norm in most places in most of human history. Pick a continent: there was slavery there at one point or another, and often over extensive periods.
- zorobo 3mo ago> Heck written Latin didn't even have punctuation marks, not even spaces. Without spaces, Japanese could never develop a great civilization. Pfff
- TFNA 3mo ago> Heck written Latin didn't even have punctuation marks, not even spaces. That's because it was only used by slave scribes. The nobility that could write, did so in Greek. Greek of this same era did not have spaces either, as a look at any reproduction of an ancient manuscript will tell you.
- lycopodiopsida 3mo agoRome was not at the spear tip of sciences and arts (it also the reason why roman elites liked greek arts so much - they had time and money for such activities) - but otherwise the impact of roman empire is huge and long-lasting. Law, engineering, political system were incredible. In fact, reading about political struggles in ancient Greece requires a good amount of explanation of the political system, but it is shocking how modern political struggles in Rome feel.