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> The 1D thing is an obvious over-simplification In general I agree, but in recent history it works pretty well if the dimension you use is Trump rather than l

> The 1D thing is an obvious over-simplification In general I agree, but in recent history it works pretty well if the dimension you use is Trump rather than left/right (assuming you are in the US). He is the most polarizing leader I have seen in the US in my lifetime, and knowing whether someone is a supporter is pretty good at predicting the rest of their viewpoints.

estearum 3mo ago
The problem with this method is it will flip immediately upon new Trump utterances. See David Sacks having an absolute meltdown over Bernie proposing some type of partial nationalization of AI labs, then just a few days later radio silence on Trump proposing effectively the same thing.
mrandish 3mo ago
> knowing whether someone is a {Trump} supporter is pretty good at predicting the rest of their viewpoints. If instead of "is a supporter" you'd said "agrees with Trump's positions", then even Trump himself might not correlate very well :-). I don't see Trump as a very useful proxy for nuanced political viewpoints since he's a populist who tends to change positions. I think many serious conservatives only align with him on an issue by issue basis because position-wise Trump isn't very consistent on traditional conservative issues. I suspect someone being "a Trump supporter" is, at best, either a proxy for being dissatisfied with the political status quo or for having a strong one-issue alignment with one of a handful of culture war issues Trump campaigned heavily on. Similarly, alignment with the current Democratic or Republican political parties isn't the proxy barometer it once was. As judged by how they vote on close, consequential issues, both of the major parties have largely abandoned several of their traditional positions - although they still may pay lip service to them when campaigning. Personally, I don't meet nearly as many people in recent years who claim to be 'all-in' on all the positions of either major party (especially as judged by how that party votes when they have a super-majority).
- rootusrootus 3mo ago
  Speaking from my own experience, all of my friends who are currently identifying as Trump Supporters (this is a pretty tight filter now, we're getting down into Keyes Constant territory) are reliably "whatever Trump is currently for." Their positions change in lockstep with whatever Trump is currently saying, even as it toggles back and forth day by day, week by week. Their ideology isn't political, it is personal. My wider circle of conservative friends who have traditional ideologically conservative positions are mostly not Trump Supporters any more. For most of them starting a war in Iran seems to have been what finally tipped them over the edge.
  - joenot443 3mo ago
    I think using ones circle of friends voting habits as a proxy for the rest of the country is a doomed premise to begin with, respectfully. Someone else could come in here with the exact opposite anecdote; it's just not a very interesting point to make.
    - idiotsecant 3mo ago
      Is the point you're making here that trump supporters are largely not going to be for whatever policy he might come up with in a given week? Because....that doesn't match reality.
- know-how 3mo ago
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xigoi 3mo ago
I don’t agree with Trump on most things, but my beliefs also definitely don’t agree with most people who hate Trump.
- idiotsecant 3mo ago
  Truly an enlightened centrist approach for the ages.
  - missinglugnut 3mo ago
    Dude...gp comment was making the completely inoffensive point that politics has more complexity than pro/against Trump. It's almost too obvious to say, but it wasn't really being factored into the discussion so it was worth pointing out. It's like the blandest thing a person can say, don't get triggered and be a jerk about it.
- ndsipa_pomu 3mo ago
  I can't make much sense of that. Can you give a few examples? As I interpret it, suppose that you disagree with Trump about the usefulness of tariffs. Now, I personally hate Trump (due to his many personality faults such as narcissism, bullying, lying etc) and I also don't think that tariffs are that useful, or at least not how Trump has tried to use them. So, does that mean that you don't agree with my views on tariffs or that you don't agree with my views on Trump or both?
- rootusrootus 3mo ago
  You probably won't read this, because I didn't get back to looking at this thread for several days, but I'll leave this here on the off chance you do. I see far more predictive value in supporting Trump than opposing him. Lots of people oppose him for a variety of reasons. But people who are still fully on board at this point have had to take a number of twists in their ideological viewpoints in stride. Their ideology is clearly not something objective, it has a focus on a moving target. Informative, but not in any kind of vanilla left/right debate.
know-how 3mo ago
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estearum 3mo ago

The problem with this method is it will flip immediately upon new Trump utterances. See David Sacks having an absolute meltdown over Bernie proposing some type of partial nationalization of AI labs, then just a few days later radio silence on Trump proposing effectively the same thing.

mrandish 3mo ago

> knowing whether someone is a {Trump} supporter is pretty good at predicting the rest of their viewpoints. If instead of "is a supporter" you'd said "agrees with Trump's positions", then even Trump himself might not correlate very well :-). I don't see Trump as a very useful proxy for nuanced political viewpoints since he's a populist who tends to change positions. I think many serious conservatives only align with him on an issue by issue basis because position-wise Trump isn't very consistent on traditional conservative issues. I suspect someone being "a Trump supporter" is, at best, either a proxy for being dissatisfied with the political status quo or for having a strong one-issue alignment with one of a handful of culture war issues Trump campaigned heavily on. Similarly, alignment with the current Democratic or Republican political parties isn't the proxy barometer it once was. As judged by how they vote on close, consequential issues, both of the major parties have largely abandoned several of their traditional positions - although they still may pay lip service to them when campaigning. Personally, I don't meet nearly as many people in recent years who claim to be 'all-in' on all the positions of either major party (especially as judged by how that party votes when they have a super-majority).

rootusrootus 3mo ago
Speaking from my own experience, all of my friends who are currently identifying as Trump Supporters (this is a pretty tight filter now, we're getting down into Keyes Constant territory) are reliably "whatever Trump is currently for." Their positions change in lockstep with whatever Trump is currently saying, even as it toggles back and forth day by day, week by week. Their ideology isn't political, it is personal. My wider circle of conservative friends who have traditional ideologically conservative positions are mostly not Trump Supporters any more. For most of them starting a war in Iran seems to have been what finally tipped them over the edge.
- joenot443 3mo ago
  I think using ones circle of friends voting habits as a proxy for the rest of the country is a doomed premise to begin with, respectfully. Someone else could come in here with the exact opposite anecdote; it's just not a very interesting point to make.
  - idiotsecant 3mo ago
    Is the point you're making here that trump supporters are largely not going to be for whatever policy he might come up with in a given week? Because....that doesn't match reality.
know-how 3mo ago
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xigoi 3mo ago

I don’t agree with Trump on most things, but my beliefs also definitely don’t agree with most people who hate Trump.

idiotsecant 3mo ago
Truly an enlightened centrist approach for the ages.
- missinglugnut 3mo ago
  Dude...gp comment was making the completely inoffensive point that politics has more complexity than pro/against Trump. It's almost too obvious to say, but it wasn't really being factored into the discussion so it was worth pointing out. It's like the blandest thing a person can say, don't get triggered and be a jerk about it.
ndsipa_pomu 3mo ago
I can't make much sense of that. Can you give a few examples? As I interpret it, suppose that you disagree with Trump about the usefulness of tariffs. Now, I personally hate Trump (due to his many personality faults such as narcissism, bullying, lying etc) and I also don't think that tariffs are that useful, or at least not how Trump has tried to use them. So, does that mean that you don't agree with my views on tariffs or that you don't agree with my views on Trump or both?
rootusrootus 3mo ago
You probably won't read this, because I didn't get back to looking at this thread for several days, but I'll leave this here on the off chance you do. I see far more predictive value in supporting Trump than opposing him. Lots of people oppose him for a variety of reasons. But people who are still fully on board at this point have had to take a number of twists in their ideological viewpoints in stride. Their ideology is clearly not something objective, it has a focus on a moving target. Informative, but not in any kind of vanilla left/right debate.

know-how 3mo ago

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