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do you mean intrinsically not capable, or systemicaly not capable.

by rolph 4mo ago

alex43578 4mo ago
Intrinsically. Someone with an IQ of 85 will not be successful in college. The idea that anyone can be anything is harmful to everyone. If you are 5’2”, you won’t make it in today’s NBA. If you are 400lbs, you are not healthy. I’m sure some people have been failed by the K-12 educational system, but the answer isn’t to further degrade the college system.
- tptacek 4mo ago
  This assumes "IQ" is fixed, but it isn't.
  - alex43578 4mo ago
    IQ remains relatively stable through life: that’s what makes it a good measure of general intelligence, when tested appropriately. It’s even more predictive when you realize that the SAT/ACT are given a year or two before college: this isn’t tracking someone at age 5, but saying someone a year away from college lacks the skills and knowledge to perform well in class next year. If schools actually consistently applied standardized test scores as part of admissions, without padding scores for race or economics, it’d be better for everyone. It might sting to be told you won’t do well in college, but wouldn’t that $100 test be better than taking on $50K in debt to find that out? Research backs this: SAT scores strongly correlate with GPA, retention, and degree completion. High scores even are predictors of life outcomes: income, occupational achievement, medical degrees, etc.
    - bossyTeacher 4mo ago
      > IQ remains relatively stable through life: that’s what makes it a good measure of general intelligence, when tested appropriately. This is pointless if IQ tests can be gamed. It's like those leetcode tests. Smart folk can pass them. But so can anyone that practices for them or anything adjacent to them. Thus you don't need to be smart to pass the leetcode tests, just have enough time and resources to practice them over and over until you pass. And thus, it becomes a proxy for people who have the will and resources to practice enough till they pass.
      - alex43578 4mo ago
        What? My argument is that people who aren’t intelligent will not be successful at college. Studying will not let you double your SAT score, but even if you study and pass the test, great: that’s demonstrating the skills needed for success in college.

do you mean intrinsically not capable, or systemicaly not capable.

by rolph 4mo ago

do you mean intrinsically not capable, or systemicaly not capable.

Intrinsically. Someone with an IQ of 85 will not be successful in college. The idea that anyone can be anything is harmful to everyone. If you are 5’2”, you won’t make it in today’s NBA. If you are 400lbs, you are not healthy. I’m sure some people have been failed by the K-12 educational system, but the answer isn’t to further degrade the college system.

tptacek 4mo ago
This assumes "IQ" is fixed, but it isn't.
- alex43578 4mo ago
  IQ remains relatively stable through life: that’s what makes it a good measure of general intelligence, when tested appropriately. It’s even more predictive when you realize that the SAT/ACT are given a year or two before college: this isn’t tracking someone at age 5, but saying someone a year away from college lacks the skills and knowledge to perform well in class next year. If schools actually consistently applied standardized test scores as part of admissions, without padding scores for race or economics, it’d be better for everyone. It might sting to be told you won’t do well in college, but wouldn’t that $100 test be better than taking on $50K in debt to find that out? Research backs this: SAT scores strongly correlate with GPA, retention, and degree completion. High scores even are predictors of life outcomes: income, occupational achievement, medical degrees, etc.
  - bossyTeacher 4mo ago
    > IQ remains relatively stable through life: that’s what makes it a good measure of general intelligence, when tested appropriately. This is pointless if IQ tests can be gamed. It's like those leetcode tests. Smart folk can pass them. But so can anyone that practices for them or anything adjacent to them. Thus you don't need to be smart to pass the leetcode tests, just have enough time and resources to practice them over and over until you pass. And thus, it becomes a proxy for people who have the will and resources to practice enough till they pass.
    - alex43578 4mo ago
      What? My argument is that people who aren’t intelligent will not be successful at college. Studying will not let you double your SAT score, but even if you study and pass the test, great: that’s demonstrating the skills needed for success in college.