4 ms·

> Where exactly this happened, really? Iraq, Egypt, Gaza, Post-Soviet Russia comes to mind among others

by breppp 4mo ago

lern_too_spel 4mo ago
Any government that isn't democratically chosen is illegitimate. Better a democratic fascist government than a dictatorial fascist government, which will have to be more brutal to maintain power.
- breppp 4mo ago
  And you suppose the Nazi party that had won a large enough of the seats to enforce democratic consensus is also better than any alternative?
  - lern_too_spel 3mo ago
    Do you think a government not supported by its populace would have fared better? Unless it brutally represses it's opposition, it would be violently overthrown by the government that the people wanted, and then that government would do what the people wanted. The solution to a bad government isn't to install one that doesn't have the support of the people it governs.
    - breppp 3mo ago
      What I am saying is that as often missed by American policy makers, bringing Democracy does not make a population automatically Liberal, and they often vote for disaster for both them and for the US. Also, contrary to your theory, most of human history people were ruled by non-democratic governments that were deemed legitimate, so I think you are conflating the two
      - lern_too_spel 3mo ago
        > bringing Democracy does not make a population automatically Liberal Nobody believes this to be the case. What is more often missed by policy makers is that overthrowing a government supported by the local population is unpopular and will cause blowback. The CIA-supported coup in Iran is a currently relevant example. > Also, contrary to your theory, most of human history people were ruled by non-democratic governments that were deemed legitimate That was when people believed in the divine right of kings, so those kings ruled with the consent of the governed. This is no longer the case. Nobody believes in the divine right of dictators.

> Where exactly this happened, really? Iraq, Egypt, Gaza, Post-Soviet Russia comes to mind among others

by breppp 4mo ago

> Where exactly this happened, really? Iraq, Egypt, Gaza, Post-Soviet Russia comes to mind among others

Any government that isn't democratically chosen is illegitimate. Better a democratic fascist government than a dictatorial fascist government, which will have to be more brutal to maintain power.

breppp 4mo ago
And you suppose the Nazi party that had won a large enough of the seats to enforce democratic consensus is also better than any alternative?
- lern_too_spel 3mo ago
  Do you think a government not supported by its populace would have fared better? Unless it brutally represses it's opposition, it would be violently overthrown by the government that the people wanted, and then that government would do what the people wanted. The solution to a bad government isn't to install one that doesn't have the support of the people it governs.
  - breppp 3mo ago
    What I am saying is that as often missed by American policy makers, bringing Democracy does not make a population automatically Liberal, and they often vote for disaster for both them and for the US. Also, contrary to your theory, most of human history people were ruled by non-democratic governments that were deemed legitimate, so I think you are conflating the two
    - lern_too_spel 3mo ago
      > bringing Democracy does not make a population automatically Liberal Nobody believes this to be the case. What is more often missed by policy makers is that overthrowing a government supported by the local population is unpopular and will cause blowback. The CIA-supported coup in Iran is a currently relevant example. > Also, contrary to your theory, most of human history people were ruled by non-democratic governments that were deemed legitimate That was when people believed in the divine right of kings, so those kings ruled with the consent of the governed. This is no longer the case. Nobody believes in the divine right of dictators.