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I won't argue that other thread either, but we do have a good case about HN behavior that's on-topic here. The broad point of the article was that FizzBuzz (st
by jccc 14y ago
I won't argue that other thread either, but we do have a good case about HN behavior that's on-topic here.
The broad point of the article was that FizzBuzz (still) reveals an amazing number of unqualified applicants. "Why, look what happens when we do FizzBuzz... You should too."
I did not disagree that FizzBuzz does that very thing. My objection was this: "Only 40% of programmers could correctly write out a FizzBuzz program on paper during our timed test in the middle of a job interview" is not equivalent to "Only 40% of applicants even have the skill to code FizzBuzz." The difference between the two is vital in a way many people here don't see, or at least won't acknowledge. That was the subject of my comment.
Maybe entrepreneurial types are fundamentally more at ease with that kind of thing than coders who aren't wired that way. I don't know how to enable you to see into that blind spot. I could try, in a meaningful back-and-forth with those who disagree with me. But to simply dismiss my initial objection outright, as something that doesn't even belong in the conversation? To employ HN moderation that sidelines it so it won't be seen? That leaves nowhere to begin.
I value being able to argue with intelligent, tech-minded people who disagree with me. It matters so much to me that there be an online venue like HN to meet unfamiliar points of view, to test my own biases, to figure out how I actually see things by engaging in meaningful debate. But we can't have such a low tolerance for disagreement and for challenges to biases that a whiff of a problem with someone's tone makes that person's words seem "mean." We can't be so quick to silence people at square one just because we don't (yet) see their point.
Please believe me that this is sincere and not pedantic. I just want to be clear: When you compare the first set of three comments above with the second, you really see the first as more valuable to HN than the second? Let's agree that no submission or comment is going to be all bad or all good and that we won't quibble about details. On balance, you would say the second set is unwelcome when compared with the first?
- mseebach 14y ago> My objection was this: "Only 40% of programmers could correctly write out a FizzBuzz program on paper during our timed test in the middle of a job interview" is not equivalent to "Only 40% of applicants even have the skill to code FizzBuzz." OK. You made that point very poorly. I only understood that now. Also, I disagree, but that's offtopic here. You were not downvoted because you made an unpopular point, or because people disagrees with you. You weren't "silenced". Understand that. There is an extremely high tolerance for disagreement here, but it has to be well phrased and well argued. You were downvoted because you made your point very poorly, so it read like an argumentation-void grasping at a strawman. I'm completely willing to accept that wasn't how you meant it to come out, but it's your responsibility, and only yours, that your comment comes across as intended. I never responded to the first three comments - they were upvoted because you hit a popular vein in that particular discussion. That's pretty common. By the way, here's one for challenging the bias on this site: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4827567 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4827567 - it's got 53 points. It's not a particular well written or insightful comment, it's a fairly trivial anecdote that happens to contain the magic word "YC". It's probably one of my all-time highest scoring comments, to think that means it's the best depresses me. A lot.