4 ms·
Mass surveillance is bad, until I'm in charge of it. -- Parents demanding "age verification" laws
by panny 4mo ago
Mass surveillance is bad, until I'm in charge of it. -- Parents demanding "age verification" laws
- sph 4mo agoIt's not parents demanding 'age verification' laws.
- gruez 4mo agoThat's not supported by the polling. >From everything you have seen and heard, do you support or oppose the recent rules requiring age verification to access websites that may contain pornographic material?* >80% support https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/52693-how-have-britons-reacted-to-age-verification https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/52693-how-have-britons-rea... >The Essential poll found majority support for a range reforms to improve online safety including: [...] enforcing age verifications for pornography and gambling sites (79%); enforcing age verification for social media (76%) https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/article/2024/may/07/australia-esafety-law-changes-age-verification-social-media https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/article/2024/may/...
- xyzzy_plugh 4mo agoSupport is not the same thing as demand.
- gruez 4mo agoThat just seems like a cheap way to wriggle out of any inconvenient poll numbers. Most people support access to abortion? Well how many people actually demand it? Most people support medicare for all? Well how many people actually demand it?
- xyzzy_plugh 4mo ago[dead]
- john_strinlai 4mo agoit really difficult to take this polling at face value. average people typically hear only one side of the argument: "age verification will stop kids from accessing harmful sites". they don't hear about all of the potential downsides, knock-on effects, chilling effects, etc. unless they are part of niche groups like HN. and even if they do, in passing, they often lack the technical knowledge to really understand the implications. i.e., they are consenting, but it isn't informed consent. i imagine there would be an interesting picture if these numbers were presented in buckets by occupation, or by results in tech competency test, etc. (similarly, as an example, my opinion in a poll about some complex medical procedure would not be very informed. i would be relying solely on what i hear on the news or read in a quick article, with no fundamentals to really assess and form an opinion of my own)
- amarant 4mo agoThis is a problem with current implementations of democracy. It's free elections, but it's not informed elections. The average voter has very little clue about what they are voting for. Arguably it's impossible to know in a representative democracy. Not that I know how to do it better, but it's definitely an issue, possibly one that could be solved somehow.
- fsflover 4mo agoProbably with better education.
- blharr 4mo agoRepresentative democracy was supposed to be the solution for this. i.e. "I dont know what the best way to do age verification should be, but it's probably important"... and then voting for the candidate that has shown ability, intelligence, and a good nature to look at the issue in your best interest and handle all the edge cases without screwing you over. What we've lost is the integrity of this system entirely. No candidate can truly be trusted to implement an age verification system without first getting a check from big tech
- antipurist 4mo agoAre you quoting the same polls that simply didn't offer respondents any way to say "I'm against all of it"? Dishonest polls do not demonstrate popular support. https://consumerrights.wiki/w/User:Louis/Manufacturing_support_for_age_verification https://consumerrights.wiki/w/User:Louis/Manufacturing_suppo...
- gruez 4mo ago>Are you quoting the same polls that simply didn't offer respondents any way to say "I'm against all of it"? https://essentialreport.com.au/reports/07-may-2024 https://essentialreport.com.au/reports/07-may-2024
- diordiderot 4mo agoThere was no option to select no! Only which age you wanted the ban to start
- gruez 4mo agoSee: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48674572 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48674572
- PxldLtd 4mo agoThis feels a bit out of touch. These policies have a lot of public support here in the UK. All of our parent friends are lauding it despite my complaints.
- kodisha 4mo agoWhat story are they telling them self to justify this?
- mhitza 4mo agoBy ignoring key implementation details. That's what has been happening in Romania with this topic for the last year. Constant polling and reporting of opinion, and always phrased in terms of effect instead of how they aim to do so. Once properly informed "do you want to go through an ID check on all websites and apps that you use?" people wise up quickly to the issue. But state sponsored media is pretty adamant about moving this topic forward.
- ryan_n 4mo agoYou sure about that? The average person couldn't care less about privacy and would gladly hand over a significant amount of data to whatever company asks. The sentiment on hacker news isn't the norm.
- vlian2088 4mo ago>Parents demanding "age verification" laws I keep seeing this claim, but where is it coming from?
- beached_whale 4mo agoThis parent wants a form of that that doesn't require identity disclosure. Like zero trust assertions. Without that, the risks are too high.
- esikich 4mo agoJust talk to an average person rather than a tech nerd.
- vlian2088 4mo agoI don't think asking the average person whether they would consent to constantly have their face scanned to access the Internet would yield the result you believe it would, no matter the excuse. "parents" are not do-I-look-like-I-know-what-a-jay-peg-is boomers you and others who make this claim believe them to be. the people who are having children now grew up with iPhones. to them, the Internet is not that newfangled thang they heard about on CNN/Fox. so, show me the data. not a poll with vague ass questions like "are you concerned about your children's safety on the Internet?". I want to see the percentage of people who answer yes to an unambiguous question like "do you consent to submit your ID and/or scan your face to access any random website ~~to fight terrorisds~~ ~~to protect our democracy~~ to protect your children?"
- esikich 4mo ago"Won't somebody think of the children" is as old as time and works. That's why it's used so often. If it were ineffective at convincing people to give up their rights, it wouldn't be a thing.
- vlian2088 4mo agoand what I'm saying is that I'm not seeing the data to back up that claim. California, for example, has all those propositions they vote on, about various things they're allowed to decide. the recent age verification bullshit, however, doesn't seem to have been put up to a vote.
- noosphr 4mo agoYes, I really want pedophiles to know just how old my kids are.
- basket_horse 4mo agolol as if they don’t have a birth certificate already
- dismalaf 4mo agoIt's not shown on the internet. Age verification laws essentially broadcast it.