3 ms·

I do notice the symmetry. It is saying that each of them can use the others body as they like, without regard for the other. But that's fine, because they can d

I do notice the symmetry. It is saying that each of them can use the others body as they like, without regard for the other. But that's fine, because they can do it right back. A progressive system is not built off "I'll do what I want to you but I also will let you do it back". That conveniently ignores that there is still an entirely non-consenting party in this. Your body belongs to you. Your partners body belongs to them. And religious institutions teaching the opposite of this is what has lead to decades of marital rape and entitlement. I call that very very far from a progressive system

jimmygrapes 3mo ago
Consider this: neither man nor women, when fully committed to each other as if they are one, and maybe even if they are not committed, can control the emotions and impulses inflicted upon them by the other. It's ok to set aside misgivings about the whole thing and how the world has corrupted it all and just explore the possibility of depth and beauty and love. You don't have to chose the worst interpretation of things, even if others have.
- condwanaland 3mo ago
  Describing my interpretation of a passage that quite literally says "your body belongs to someone else" as a 'worst possible reading' would be comically hilarious if not for the rather sinister undertones. Your interpretation of this passage is reading far more into things and doing far more justifying than mine is
  - danhau 3mo ago
    From your earlier comment: > It is saying that each of them can use the others body as they like, without regard for the other This is your own interpretation and it shows your bias. The bible (and I assume other religious texts) is easy to misinterpret due to bias. It's not written like a technical documentation where the tiniest details are specified; thus giving plenty opportunities to subject a text to arbitrary meaning. This was a problem even in biblical times. 2 Peter 3:16 > as also in all of his letters, speaking in them of these things. In those, there are some things that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unsettled twist, as they also do to the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. The solution is study. Not superficially reading and guesstimating, but to study the text itself, the surrounding verses, the context. Who wrote it? Who's the audience? What, more broadly, are they trying to say? Crosschecking with other verses in bible. Things like that (See Proverbs 2:1-5, Psalm 1:2, Joshua 1:8, Psalm 119:97, 1. Timothy 4:15) Coming back to the text in question (1. Corinthians 7:4). The surrounding verses provide context on what this is about: > To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion. > Let the husband give to his wife her due, and let the wife also do likewise to her husband. > Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent for an appointed time [...]. Put simply: "marry and enjoy sex." That's basically what the apostle Paul is trying to say here. But of course, that alone doesn't debunk your interpretation. Paul also wrote Ephesians 5:28-33 > In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. A man who loves his wife loves himself, for no man ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cherishes it [...] Each one of you must love his wife as he does himself; on the other hand, the wife should have deep respect for her husband. Also vers 25: > Husbands, continue loving your wives, just as the Christ also loved the congregation and gave himself up for it. There are further verses, but this comment is getting too long.
    - condwanaland 3mo ago
      Funny how my view that 'your body belongs to yourself and no one else' doesn't require study and cross-referencing and other passages to understand.
      - tanseydavid 3mo ago
        In a marriage context, if you apply "my body, my choice" as a justification for adultery be sure to let us know how that works out for you. IMHO there is more to this concept than you are considering.
        condwanaland 3mo ago
        Your comment is just another flavour of various fallacies christrians trot out i.e., whats stopping you raping and murdering without the bibles moral framework And your also trying to twist my words in the opposite direction. I'm here claiming that someone's body belongs to only them. And your response is to say, if its only yours, why don't you go cheat??? Come on, this is straw manning at its finest. Your view comes from entitlement. You have a right to your partners body because a book says so. I say different. I have a responsibility to my partner because we are in love and build our beliefs together. Your view teaches subservience. You can add all the context you want, but at the end of the day, there is a line that says "your body belongs to your partner". And that line is used to subjugate. Whereas a healthy couple would start from the respect that they don't own each other, and then build the boundaries that they are comfortable with.
        tanseydavid 3mo ago
        >> Your view comes from entitlement I did not state a viewpoint other than "I believe that you are considering too narrow a portion of the topic at hand." I am not in favor subservience in a relationship, except when such subservience is to the relationship itself, such as where you mention having a "responsibility to your partner."
      - TrnsltLife 3mo ago

jimmygrapes 3mo ago

Consider this: neither man nor women, when fully committed to each other as if they are one, and maybe even if they are not committed, can control the emotions and impulses inflicted upon them by the other. It's ok to set aside misgivings about the whole thing and how the world has corrupted it all and just explore the possibility of depth and beauty and love. You don't have to chose the worst interpretation of things, even if others have.

condwanaland 3mo ago
Describing my interpretation of a passage that quite literally says "your body belongs to someone else" as a 'worst possible reading' would be comically hilarious if not for the rather sinister undertones. Your interpretation of this passage is reading far more into things and doing far more justifying than mine is
- danhau 3mo ago
  From your earlier comment: > It is saying that each of them can use the others body as they like, without regard for the other This is your own interpretation and it shows your bias. The bible (and I assume other religious texts) is easy to misinterpret due to bias. It's not written like a technical documentation where the tiniest details are specified; thus giving plenty opportunities to subject a text to arbitrary meaning. This was a problem even in biblical times. 2 Peter 3:16 > as also in all of his letters, speaking in them of these things. In those, there are some things that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unsettled twist, as they also do to the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. The solution is study. Not superficially reading and guesstimating, but to study the text itself, the surrounding verses, the context. Who wrote it? Who's the audience? What, more broadly, are they trying to say? Crosschecking with other verses in bible. Things like that (See Proverbs 2:1-5, Psalm 1:2, Joshua 1:8, Psalm 119:97, 1. Timothy 4:15) Coming back to the text in question (1. Corinthians 7:4). The surrounding verses provide context on what this is about: > To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion. > Let the husband give to his wife her due, and let the wife also do likewise to her husband. > Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent for an appointed time [...]. Put simply: "marry and enjoy sex." That's basically what the apostle Paul is trying to say here. But of course, that alone doesn't debunk your interpretation. Paul also wrote Ephesians 5:28-33 > In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. A man who loves his wife loves himself, for no man ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cherishes it [...] Each one of you must love his wife as he does himself; on the other hand, the wife should have deep respect for her husband. Also vers 25: > Husbands, continue loving your wives, just as the Christ also loved the congregation and gave himself up for it. There are further verses, but this comment is getting too long.
  - condwanaland 3mo ago
    Funny how my view that 'your body belongs to yourself and no one else' doesn't require study and cross-referencing and other passages to understand.
    - tanseydavid 3mo ago
      In a marriage context, if you apply "my body, my choice" as a justification for adultery be sure to let us know how that works out for you. IMHO there is more to this concept than you are considering.
      - condwanaland 3mo ago
        Your comment is just another flavour of various fallacies christrians trot out i.e., whats stopping you raping and murdering without the bibles moral framework And your also trying to twist my words in the opposite direction. I'm here claiming that someone's body belongs to only them. And your response is to say, if its only yours, why don't you go cheat??? Come on, this is straw manning at its finest. Your view comes from entitlement. You have a right to your partners body because a book says so. I say different. I have a responsibility to my partner because we are in love and build our beliefs together. Your view teaches subservience. You can add all the context you want, but at the end of the day, there is a line that says "your body belongs to your partner". And that line is used to subjugate. Whereas a healthy couple would start from the respect that they don't own each other, and then build the boundaries that they are comfortable with.
        tanseydavid 3mo ago
        >> Your view comes from entitlement I did not state a viewpoint other than "I believe that you are considering too narrow a portion of the topic at hand." I am not in favor subservience in a relationship, except when such subservience is to the relationship itself, such as where you mention having a "responsibility to your partner."
    - TrnsltLife 3mo ago