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Why does the FSD blindly accept accelerator input in the face of a dead end cul de sac with much lower speed limit? Is this some sort of regulation? I have dri

Why does the FSD blindly accept accelerator input in the face of a dead end cul de sac with much lower speed limit? Is this some sort of regulation? I have driven normal cars that cut power and brake if they detect a perceived dangerous situation usually annoyingly and in error. Traction control will also cut power to prevent wheel slip regardless of pedal position.

delichon 3mo ago
FSD has Automatic Emergency Braking but that does not apply to hard acceleration by the driver, which is an explicit UI to take control from the autopilot.
- SigmundA 3mo ago
  >FSD has Automatic Emergency Braking but that does not apply to hard acceleration by the driver Why?
  - delichon 3mo ago
    The design philosophy is that this is driver assistance where the driver is the supervisor, rather than the car supervising the driver. Sustained acceleration is interpreted as the driver overriding the car. For unsupervised autonomy in the Cybercab they remove the ambiguity by removing the accelerator pedal.
    - SigmundA 3mo ago
      I guess that seems ridiculous to me. I could understand if its some sort of government regulation, but if you want to ram a house or anything else or go double the posted speed limit then you should be required to disengaged FSD and go manual, obviously. There are plenty of videos of stuck vehicles that have a hard time due to traction control disallowing power even with full accelerator pedal, this is not a foreign concept in a modern vehicle. Here is one example, they refer to traction control as the soup nazi, no power for you! : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLVae7-N_Vs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLVae7-N_Vs It's a feature to look for in a off road vehicle if it has a traction control disable and even ABS disable on motorcycles, this is an explicit command to disable a safety feature that typically resets when power cycled. Not sure why FSD would allow overriding an obviously unsafe situation, the operator can disable the whole thing at any time if they wish to do so and go manual with a specific on screen command rather than hitting a pedal right next to the other stop pedal with your foot resting between them otherwise.
  - em-bee 3mo ago
    you don't want your car to refuse to move when you are stuck on a railroad crossing despite the gate in front of the car being down. there must always be a way to override the autopilot.
    - SigmundA 3mo ago
      Moving off a railroad track at what maybe 15mph max is very different than doing 70mph down a cut de sac double the posted speed limit. I am not saying FSD should prevent any forward movement, how fast can it go in reverse? Probably something like that.
      - em-bee 3mo ago
        yes, but according to the car you'd be crashing right into a barrier no matter the speed. the car needs to ignore that and allow you to break the barrier.
        SigmundA 3mo ago
        Sorry the difference between 70mph and 15mph is a 20x difference in kinetic energy completely different outcomes.
blooalien 3mo ago
I say the machine should always be easily overridable, and the human always held responsible for the consequences of their operation of their machine. If you're driving a normal car, and you get in an accident, and the accident is your fault and not the fault of another driver, then it's you that pays the price of that accident one way or another. If the machine has some sort of "brain" like "full self-driving" or "driver assist", then that should be easily and instantly overridable and the human should always stay at least as aware of their surroundings as they would in a standard more traditional non-self-driving car and always be on the ready to take over control of the machine at a moment's notice. Same thing as with old-school "cruise control". You still gotta be ready to speed up or slow down under manual control, and / or disengage cruise mode entirely if necessary. No different for FSD IMHO.
- SigmundA 3mo ago
  The machine is easily overridable by disabling FSD... Modern cars will auto brake if sensors detect what it thinks is an imminent collision regardless of accelerator position: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_emergency_braking_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_emergency_braking_sy... Traction control systems will cut power if wheel slip is detected again regardless of accelerator position: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traction_control_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traction_control_system FSD is obviously very different than normal cruise control and I cannot see an argument why a system that knows its heading down a dead end street at more than double the posted speed limit would allow such and accelerator override and not apply automatic emergency braking, it makes no sense, that serves no purpose while leading to a tragic outcome.

delichon 3mo ago

FSD has Automatic Emergency Braking but that does not apply to hard acceleration by the driver, which is an explicit UI to take control from the autopilot.

SigmundA 3mo ago
>FSD has Automatic Emergency Braking but that does not apply to hard acceleration by the driver Why?
- delichon 3mo ago
  The design philosophy is that this is driver assistance where the driver is the supervisor, rather than the car supervising the driver. Sustained acceleration is interpreted as the driver overriding the car. For unsupervised autonomy in the Cybercab they remove the ambiguity by removing the accelerator pedal.
  - SigmundA 3mo ago
    I guess that seems ridiculous to me. I could understand if its some sort of government regulation, but if you want to ram a house or anything else or go double the posted speed limit then you should be required to disengaged FSD and go manual, obviously. There are plenty of videos of stuck vehicles that have a hard time due to traction control disallowing power even with full accelerator pedal, this is not a foreign concept in a modern vehicle. Here is one example, they refer to traction control as the soup nazi, no power for you! : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLVae7-N_Vs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLVae7-N_Vs It's a feature to look for in a off road vehicle if it has a traction control disable and even ABS disable on motorcycles, this is an explicit command to disable a safety feature that typically resets when power cycled. Not sure why FSD would allow overriding an obviously unsafe situation, the operator can disable the whole thing at any time if they wish to do so and go manual with a specific on screen command rather than hitting a pedal right next to the other stop pedal with your foot resting between them otherwise.
- em-bee 3mo ago
  you don't want your car to refuse to move when you are stuck on a railroad crossing despite the gate in front of the car being down. there must always be a way to override the autopilot.
  - SigmundA 3mo ago
    Moving off a railroad track at what maybe 15mph max is very different than doing 70mph down a cut de sac double the posted speed limit. I am not saying FSD should prevent any forward movement, how fast can it go in reverse? Probably something like that.
    - em-bee 3mo ago
      yes, but according to the car you'd be crashing right into a barrier no matter the speed. the car needs to ignore that and allow you to break the barrier.
      - SigmundA 3mo ago
        Sorry the difference between 70mph and 15mph is a 20x difference in kinetic energy completely different outcomes.

blooalien 3mo ago

I say the machine should always be easily overridable, and the human always held responsible for the consequences of their operation of their machine. If you're driving a normal car, and you get in an accident, and the accident is your fault and not the fault of another driver, then it's you that pays the price of that accident one way or another. If the machine has some sort of "brain" like "full self-driving" or "driver assist", then that should be easily and instantly overridable and the human should always stay at least as aware of their surroundings as they would in a standard more traditional non-self-driving car and always be on the ready to take over control of the machine at a moment's notice. Same thing as with old-school "cruise control". You still gotta be ready to speed up or slow down under manual control, and / or disengage cruise mode entirely if necessary. No different for FSD IMHO.

SigmundA 3mo ago
The machine is easily overridable by disabling FSD... Modern cars will auto brake if sensors detect what it thinks is an imminent collision regardless of accelerator position: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_emergency_braking_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_emergency_braking_sy... Traction control systems will cut power if wheel slip is detected again regardless of accelerator position: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traction_control_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traction_control_system FSD is obviously very different than normal cruise control and I cannot see an argument why a system that knows its heading down a dead end street at more than double the posted speed limit would allow such and accelerator override and not apply automatic emergency braking, it makes no sense, that serves no purpose while leading to a tragic outcome.