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See the official project issue on this: https://github.com/rust-lang/crates.io/issues/326 https://github.com/rust-lang/crates.io/issues/326 TL;DR: They want to

See the official project issue on this: https://github.com/rust-lang/crates.io/issues/326 https://github.com/rust-lang/crates.io/issues/326 TL;DR: They want to fix this, it's a lot of work that no one's being paid to do, there's a roadmap with specific tasks that need doing, volunteer contributions are welcome.

sscaryterry 4mo ago
Just going to say it out loud :) Its been known for 10 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_what_it_does https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_wha...
- NobodyNada 4mo ago
  10 years ago, GitHub had a far better reputation and the Rust ecosystem was much smaller and less load-bearing, so "what if someone doesn't have a GitHub account" was a theoretical concern for most people. So the issue was a low-priority backlog item that everyone agreed would be nice-to-have but there weren't enough people willing to volunteer their time to it over more important and more impactful work. Obviously, the situation has changed in recent years, so it's now considered a much higher priority by many people and some of them are actively working on it. But it's a lot of work to be done by volunteers, so it takes time. That's the reality of open-source projects: things get done when they are important enough to motivate someone to either fund it or work on in their free time, not according to idyllic roadmaps and schedules.
  - sscaryterry 4mo ago
    Wow, have you forgotten? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis... 10 (edit: 8) years ago MS took over Github. The writing was on the wall then... No need to explain OSS to me, I maintain and contribute.
    - ameliaquining 4mo ago
      crates.io was started long before the GitHub acquisition.
      - sscaryterry 4mo ago
        Yes, and your point?
  - sscaryterry 4mo ago
    Pro tip: Using "load-bearing" is heavily associated with LLM usage :)
    - DrJokepu 4mo ago
      You could say it’s the real smoking gun. With significant blast radius.
    - ameliaquining 4mo ago
      Pangram says human: https://www.pangram.com/history/208879e5-8510-479a-b96c-a20fb4a31e96?ucc=VavQZOMatca https://www.pangram.com/history/208879e5-8510-479a-b96c-a20f...
      - sscaryterry 4mo ago
        This is where I would insert the Little Britain "Computer says no" meme.
    - NobodyNada 4mo ago
      It is also heavily associated with humans writing about things which bear load (in an xkcd #2347 sense) :)
    - kelnos 4mo ago
      It's pretty sad that people are suggesting we not use perfectly-good English idioms anymore just because LLMs seem to like them. The reason LLMs seem to like them is because humans liked them first.
  - dijit 4mo ago
    The reason people were sounding the alarm 10 years ago is because if you tie yourself to a proprietary platform then you're at its mercy, even if it changes for the worse for everyone which is what we're seeing now.
    - janalsncm 4mo ago
      The comment you are replying to was in response to essentially the same point, albeit with fewer words and less emphasis.
    - kibwen 4mo ago
      From the outset, crates.io was careful to deliberately not tie itself inextricably to Github. For example, by resisting the endless deluge of people demanding that Github usernames be used as public-facing package namespaces. Github is only used as an identity provider for logging in.
    - arjie 4mo ago
      With open-source projects, realistically there is no shortage of alarm sounding, and there is a shortage of alarm fixing, consequently if you really care about this being fixed you have to volunteer to go fix it.
      - estebank 4mo ago
        Open source projects tend to be (and Rust certainly is) a showupocracy. Shit gets done when people that care about that shit does it. This means that important stuff that everyone agrees is important but not important enough for me to do, doesn't get done. And that some things end up being 80% solutions that scratch the itch of the person driving a project and progress stalls beyond that.
      - a96 4mo ago
        With Github, both of those things are gated behind Microsoft accounts, which will be an absolute no to a lot of volunteers. Particularly the ones who would fix that problem.
  - Chu4eeno 4mo ago
    > 10 years ago, GitHub had a far better reputation While this might have been true in rust-circles (which I'm an outsider to), I think this varied a lot in different circles. Most free software projects invested a lot of money, time and effort in setting up better (for themselves) alternatives to Github. Everything from videolan and GNU Savannah to XDG, Gnome, KDE, etc.
- ameliaquining 4mo ago
  Counterargument: https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/come-on-obviously-the-purpose-of https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/come-on-obviously-the-purpo...
- xboxnolifes 4mo ago
  A really popular saying on HN that's completely nonsensical under even a small amount of scrutiny.
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
DyslexicAtheist 4mo ago
> it's a lot of work that no one's being paid to do, aren't they like some kind of non-profit (in the legal sense) that is still able to take a lot of money (from players like Google and Co, to justify fixing this), as opposed to ... say the Zig foundation, ... that is is also "non-profit" but can't get money the same way?
- jojomodding 4mo ago
  The non-profit (the Foundation) pays for specific things but it is not really there to hire people to work on things. It pays for infrastructure work and to pay the existing maintainers who often do review work. It also gives stipends to up-and-coming contributors for Open Source outreach programmes, but this are not really the people who you want to have immediately work on your critical infrastructure code.
nottorp 4mo ago
That reminds me tailscale still depends on anyone-but-them for identity...

sscaryterry 4mo ago

Just going to say it out loud :) Its been known for 10 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_what_it_does https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_wha...

NobodyNada 4mo ago
10 years ago, GitHub had a far better reputation and the Rust ecosystem was much smaller and less load-bearing, so "what if someone doesn't have a GitHub account" was a theoretical concern for most people. So the issue was a low-priority backlog item that everyone agreed would be nice-to-have but there weren't enough people willing to volunteer their time to it over more important and more impactful work. Obviously, the situation has changed in recent years, so it's now considered a much higher priority by many people and some of them are actively working on it. But it's a lot of work to be done by volunteers, so it takes time. That's the reality of open-source projects: things get done when they are important enough to motivate someone to either fund it or work on in their free time, not according to idyllic roadmaps and schedules.
- sscaryterry 4mo ago
  Wow, have you forgotten? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis... 10 (edit: 8) years ago MS took over Github. The writing was on the wall then... No need to explain OSS to me, I maintain and contribute.
  - ameliaquining 4mo ago
    crates.io was started long before the GitHub acquisition.
    - sscaryterry 4mo ago
      Yes, and your point?
- sscaryterry 4mo ago
  Pro tip: Using "load-bearing" is heavily associated with LLM usage :)
  - DrJokepu 4mo ago
    You could say it’s the real smoking gun. With significant blast radius.
  - ameliaquining 4mo ago
    Pangram says human: https://www.pangram.com/history/208879e5-8510-479a-b96c-a20fb4a31e96?ucc=VavQZOMatca https://www.pangram.com/history/208879e5-8510-479a-b96c-a20f...
    - sscaryterry 4mo ago
      This is where I would insert the Little Britain "Computer says no" meme.
  - NobodyNada 4mo ago
    It is also heavily associated with humans writing about things which bear load (in an xkcd #2347 sense) :)
  - kelnos 4mo ago
    It's pretty sad that people are suggesting we not use perfectly-good English idioms anymore just because LLMs seem to like them. The reason LLMs seem to like them is because humans liked them first.
- dijit 4mo ago
  The reason people were sounding the alarm 10 years ago is because if you tie yourself to a proprietary platform then you're at its mercy, even if it changes for the worse for everyone which is what we're seeing now.
  - janalsncm 4mo ago
    The comment you are replying to was in response to essentially the same point, albeit with fewer words and less emphasis.
  - kibwen 4mo ago
    From the outset, crates.io was careful to deliberately not tie itself inextricably to Github. For example, by resisting the endless deluge of people demanding that Github usernames be used as public-facing package namespaces. Github is only used as an identity provider for logging in.
  - arjie 4mo ago
    With open-source projects, realistically there is no shortage of alarm sounding, and there is a shortage of alarm fixing, consequently if you really care about this being fixed you have to volunteer to go fix it.
    - estebank 4mo ago
      Open source projects tend to be (and Rust certainly is) a showupocracy. Shit gets done when people that care about that shit does it. This means that important stuff that everyone agrees is important but not important enough for me to do, doesn't get done. And that some things end up being 80% solutions that scratch the itch of the person driving a project and progress stalls beyond that.
    - a96 4mo ago
      With Github, both of those things are gated behind Microsoft accounts, which will be an absolute no to a lot of volunteers. Particularly the ones who would fix that problem.
- Chu4eeno 4mo ago
  > 10 years ago, GitHub had a far better reputation While this might have been true in rust-circles (which I'm an outsider to), I think this varied a lot in different circles. Most free software projects invested a lot of money, time and effort in setting up better (for themselves) alternatives to Github. Everything from videolan and GNU Savannah to XDG, Gnome, KDE, etc.
ameliaquining 4mo ago
Counterargument: https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/come-on-obviously-the-purpose-of https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/come-on-obviously-the-purpo...
xboxnolifes 4mo ago
A really popular saying on HN that's completely nonsensical under even a small amount of scrutiny.
deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]

DyslexicAtheist 4mo ago

> it's a lot of work that no one's being paid to do, aren't they like some kind of non-profit (in the legal sense) that is still able to take a lot of money (from players like Google and Co, to justify fixing this), as opposed to ... say the Zig foundation, ... that is is also "non-profit" but can't get money the same way?

jojomodding 4mo ago
The non-profit (the Foundation) pays for specific things but it is not really there to hire people to work on things. It pays for infrastructure work and to pay the existing maintainers who often do review work. It also gives stipends to up-and-coming contributors for Open Source outreach programmes, but this are not really the people who you want to have immediately work on your critical infrastructure code.

nottorp 4mo ago

That reminds me tailscale still depends on anyone-but-them for identity...