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In the original thread Carmack was replying to, Sandy Petersen said Q3 was the only other great game they produced after that: https://xcancel.com/SandyofCthulh

In the original thread Carmack was replying to, Sandy Petersen said Q3 was the only other great game they produced after that: https://xcancel.com/SandyofCthulhu/status/2069592264897441928#m https://xcancel.com/SandyofCthulhu/status/206959226489744192... Honestly I think Doom is where it came together the best, Quake was technically better (of course) but it was not a better game.

somenameforme 4mo ago
Rocket. Jump.
- gorjusborg 4mo ago
  The original Team Fortress on quake.net is where I grew to appreciate the beauty.
  - sterwill 4mo ago
    Same here. I enjoyed Q3A, but I spent so many hours playing TF/MegaTF.
rvba 4mo ago
The true successor of ID software is Half-life 1 with its goldsrc engine... but that simply was made by another studio. HL1 took both the engine and the genre further + continued the modding culture that brough Counter strike and other mods (Note I know very well that Half life is not an ID software game, it only took the engine that was auper heavily modified / updated- but it my opinion this is the successor)
- bombcar 4mo ago
  I always felt Serious Sam was the real spiritual successor of the original Doom lineage.
- AtNightWeCode 4mo ago
  goldsrc is based off the q1 engine.
  - bananaboy 4mo ago
    It was based off the q1 engine but heavily modified and took stuff from q2 as well, notably coloured lighting and radiosity lightmaps.
- StilesCrisis 4mo ago
  Don't forget that the entire Call of Duty series also sits on Quake's shoulders.
- skeeter2020 4mo ago
  Maybe they're related by blood, but the apple fell very far from the tree. the ID guys were quite vocal in their dislike of the slow pace & puzzle solving. This was when ID was all about technical advancements and repeatedly making the same game, faster & shinier. They also focused on multiplayer with Quake III arena and Unreal Tournament dictating where the market moved.
AtNightWeCode 4mo ago
Quake was better for multiplayer though. Personally I enjoyed Quake 2 the most. Quake arena was designed for multiplayer but you had to practice with the cheating bots so it was kinda boring.
- bigyabai 4mo ago
  Quake 2 multiplayer is such a blast. The cat-and-mouse chase fights in that game is what defines the genre of "arena shooter" for me, there's still nothing else really like it. The campaign has a place in my heart too, even if it's not perfect. A lot of DOOM's level design was predicated on claustrophobic interiors, and when you go "outside" in many levels it feels like a glorified courtyard. From the very first level, Quake 2 pushes hard to create an illusion of environmental complexity that plays very distinct from Quake 1 or DOOM.
  - AtNightWeCode 4mo ago
    Personally I think Unreal Tournament perfected the genre when it comes to multiplayer. Q1 was a lot of spamming of grenades and so on. Q2 was better. Still a lot of chaos. UT99 was also chaos but you could combine it with perfect moves and high precision shots. Great games all of them. I used to be an elite UT99 player but as the pace kept increasing along with my age my reaction time was simple not good enough anymore. Even if tactics compensated a lot those games are not like sneaking around in CS. I mostly played CTF. Good old times.
    - carlosjobim 4mo ago
      Quake III art style and level design is disgusting, depressing and boring. But it is the better game. Go here right now and play a few games against bots and people of Quake III and UT99: https://dos.zone/mp/?lobby=* https://dos.zone/mp/?lobby=* There is no denying that movement and gameplay is much more enjoyable in Quake compared to UT. Even with the lack in variety on all fronts.
      - thinking_cactus 4mo ago
deleted 4mo ago
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bartread 4mo ago
I agree. I loved DOOM: it was so over the top. Tons of monsters to kill, loads of great weapons, enough ammo around that you didn’t have to worry about it too much, and it was all so colourful and gore. Quake felt much more subdued to me. Not enough to shoot, the weapons weren’t as fun, ammo was tighter, and although in many ways it was incredibly atmospheric it was also just so brown and grey. To me Quake always lacked the OTT fun factor of DOOM. Technically, it’s vastly superior - and an incredible achievement - but just not as good a game. I think it’s telling that I’ll still play DOOM every so often, but I haven’t touched Quake since the 1990s.
- CamouflagedKiwi 4mo ago
  Yeah, they could do a lot more in it with true 3D maps, but the design was all brown. The bosses were boring - the first one is kinda cool, the others not (IIRC episodes 2 and 3 were just kind of standard enemies); all three of Doom's were scary, especially the Cyberdemon when you can hear it roaring and the noise of it walking around. The Lovecraftian vibe could have been cool but it doesn't really come through in the game in the way the satanic / hell thing did in Doom.
- pezezin 4mo ago
  > I think it’s telling that I’ll still play DOOM every so often, but I haven’t touched Quake since the 1990s. That is just your preference. For me it's the opposite, I have never finished DOOM, but Quake is one of my favourite games ever and I have replayed it countless times. Not to mention that Quake has a fantastic community that keeps pumping out dozens of incredible maps every year, it would not be like that if people didn't love it.
  - bartread 4mo ago
    > That is just your preference. Did you think I hadn’t realised?
- stasomatic 4mo ago
  I think it's about the first thing that got you hooked. My Macintosh LC II with a 486sx daughtercard couldn't play Doom well. By the time I sorted my PC situation out, there was Quake. For me the thing about Quake was the clans, CTF, LAN parties, QuakeC mods, Quake World. It was the first of its kind, perhaps not technically, but in capturing that zeitgeist. Yeah, there were DukeNukem, Heretic, Raven, UT, but we built our camaraderies around Quake, getting all tacticool with "10-4, RTB, RGR" and hanging out on the clan's IRC :)

somenameforme 4mo ago

Rocket. Jump.

gorjusborg 4mo ago
The original Team Fortress on quake.net is where I grew to appreciate the beauty.
- sterwill 4mo ago
  Same here. I enjoyed Q3A, but I spent so many hours playing TF/MegaTF.

rvba 4mo ago

The true successor of ID software is Half-life 1 with its goldsrc engine... but that simply was made by another studio. HL1 took both the engine and the genre further + continued the modding culture that brough Counter strike and other mods (Note I know very well that Half life is not an ID software game, it only took the engine that was auper heavily modified / updated- but it my opinion this is the successor)

bombcar 4mo ago
I always felt Serious Sam was the real spiritual successor of the original Doom lineage.
AtNightWeCode 4mo ago
goldsrc is based off the q1 engine.
- bananaboy 4mo ago
  It was based off the q1 engine but heavily modified and took stuff from q2 as well, notably coloured lighting and radiosity lightmaps.
StilesCrisis 4mo ago
Don't forget that the entire Call of Duty series also sits on Quake's shoulders.
skeeter2020 4mo ago
Maybe they're related by blood, but the apple fell very far from the tree. the ID guys were quite vocal in their dislike of the slow pace & puzzle solving. This was when ID was all about technical advancements and repeatedly making the same game, faster & shinier. They also focused on multiplayer with Quake III arena and Unreal Tournament dictating where the market moved.

AtNightWeCode 4mo ago

Quake was better for multiplayer though. Personally I enjoyed Quake 2 the most. Quake arena was designed for multiplayer but you had to practice with the cheating bots so it was kinda boring.

bigyabai 4mo ago
Quake 2 multiplayer is such a blast. The cat-and-mouse chase fights in that game is what defines the genre of "arena shooter" for me, there's still nothing else really like it. The campaign has a place in my heart too, even if it's not perfect. A lot of DOOM's level design was predicated on claustrophobic interiors, and when you go "outside" in many levels it feels like a glorified courtyard. From the very first level, Quake 2 pushes hard to create an illusion of environmental complexity that plays very distinct from Quake 1 or DOOM.
- AtNightWeCode 4mo ago
  Personally I think Unreal Tournament perfected the genre when it comes to multiplayer. Q1 was a lot of spamming of grenades and so on. Q2 was better. Still a lot of chaos. UT99 was also chaos but you could combine it with perfect moves and high precision shots. Great games all of them. I used to be an elite UT99 player but as the pace kept increasing along with my age my reaction time was simple not good enough anymore. Even if tactics compensated a lot those games are not like sneaking around in CS. I mostly played CTF. Good old times.
  - carlosjobim 4mo ago
    Quake III art style and level design is disgusting, depressing and boring. But it is the better game. Go here right now and play a few games against bots and people of Quake III and UT99: https://dos.zone/mp/?lobby=* https://dos.zone/mp/?lobby=* There is no denying that movement and gameplay is much more enjoyable in Quake compared to UT. Even with the lack in variety on all fronts.
    - thinking_cactus 4mo ago

deleted 4mo ago

[deleted]

bartread 4mo ago

I agree. I loved DOOM: it was so over the top. Tons of monsters to kill, loads of great weapons, enough ammo around that you didn’t have to worry about it too much, and it was all so colourful and gore. Quake felt much more subdued to me. Not enough to shoot, the weapons weren’t as fun, ammo was tighter, and although in many ways it was incredibly atmospheric it was also just so brown and grey. To me Quake always lacked the OTT fun factor of DOOM. Technically, it’s vastly superior - and an incredible achievement - but just not as good a game. I think it’s telling that I’ll still play DOOM every so often, but I haven’t touched Quake since the 1990s.

CamouflagedKiwi 4mo ago
Yeah, they could do a lot more in it with true 3D maps, but the design was all brown. The bosses were boring - the first one is kinda cool, the others not (IIRC episodes 2 and 3 were just kind of standard enemies); all three of Doom's were scary, especially the Cyberdemon when you can hear it roaring and the noise of it walking around. The Lovecraftian vibe could have been cool but it doesn't really come through in the game in the way the satanic / hell thing did in Doom.
pezezin 4mo ago
> I think it’s telling that I’ll still play DOOM every so often, but I haven’t touched Quake since the 1990s. That is just your preference. For me it's the opposite, I have never finished DOOM, but Quake is one of my favourite games ever and I have replayed it countless times. Not to mention that Quake has a fantastic community that keeps pumping out dozens of incredible maps every year, it would not be like that if people didn't love it.
- bartread 4mo ago
  > That is just your preference. Did you think I hadn’t realised?
stasomatic 4mo ago
I think it's about the first thing that got you hooked. My Macintosh LC II with a 486sx daughtercard couldn't play Doom well. By the time I sorted my PC situation out, there was Quake. For me the thing about Quake was the clans, CTF, LAN parties, QuakeC mods, Quake World. It was the first of its kind, perhaps not technically, but in capturing that zeitgeist. Yeah, there were DukeNukem, Heretic, Raven, UT, but we built our camaraderies around Quake, getting all tacticool with "10-4, RTB, RGR" and hanging out on the clan's IRC :)