3 ms·

yeah most US companies have return policies of 30 days or more, no questions asked.

pwinnski 4mo ago
The word "most" is doing a lot here. Europe guarantees consumer rights by law, while the US relies on companies adopting the practices voluntarily. Most do, but larger companies more universally than smaller, and it's by no means universal.
- keiferski 4mo ago
  It's the reality for the vast majority of larger companies. Quibbling with word choice is really not a good argument.
  - lompad 4mo ago
    Try canceling your NYT subscription.
    - Saline9515 4mo ago
      The same exists in the EU, French Le Monde (NYT local equivalent) required you for a long time to send a registered letter costing 7€ and a trip to the post office to cancel your subscription.
    - r4indeer 4mo ago
      Let me support your argument by telling you what you just reminded me of... I was briefly subscribed to the NYT from Germany. To my surprise, I couldn't cancel online, but had to call. (The EU has a law which requires that if you can subscribe online, you must be able to cancel online.) They have national numbers for many countries, but they're just forwarders to the same call center, with notably mangled audio quality presumably due to multiple lossy compression algorithms applied at each hop of the call. Additionally, there was lots of background noise when I got connected to a rep. Over this barely usable line, I was now asked to spell out my email address, which naturally took multiple attempts of painfully slow spelling before the rep was able to locate my account. (My very limited knowledge of the NATO alphabet didn't help.) Of course, I then had to go through the spiel of declining alternative offers and providing a reason for my cancellation (all of which I never had to do in Germany before) before they finally confirmed it. Yeah, I'm glad about consumer protection law in the EU.
    - glad_duck 4mo ago
      So don't subscribe. It's not that hard to cancel though, yes, you need to spend some time on the phone.
  - jeromegv 4mo ago
    We are talking of entrepreneurship and new companies, what small business are required to do for returns/refunds in the US is definitely not ahead of Europe for consumer protection. It's not word choice, you are just making the wrong argument.
- glad_duck 4mo ago
  Don't buy if you don't like company policy, no need to have a law. There is plenty of choice in the US. Some companies even offer 90 days (again, no laws required).
  - 9dev 4mo ago
    I'd find it tiresome real quick to always have to research before purchasing anything if the vendor will treat me with respect. Having a baseline of what you can expect from any business relation guaranteed by law is pretty great, really.
    - glad_duck 4mo ago
      Really? There are tons of ways to cheat and game any system, including consumer protection. No laws can close this completely. Darwin award is still a thing and will always be.
tyg13 4mo ago
most large companies, maybe, but small-to-medium-sized businesses can and will tell you to take a hike. there are no consumer protections in the US regarding returns beyond the goodwill of the company
- glad_duck 4mo ago
  That's why they are dying (those who tell you to take a hike). Why would I buy from a small business without a possibility to return if I can buy from Amazon with guaranteed 30 days? It's your choice. Honestly, I bought enough stuff from small to medium companies and most of them allow returns. If not, it's my choice not to buy. Not everything should be a law, and laws are not free, somebody has to pay (just like for 30 day return). Guess who pays? Well, it's ... you.
  - 9dev 4mo ago
    > Why would I buy from a small business without a possibility to return if I can buy from Amazon with guaranteed 30 days? Perhaps because you don't want all retail to be Amazon? > laws are not free, somebody has to pay Isn't that a bit hyperbole? That law is written once, and delivers its effects afterwards. In contrast, millions of buyers have to investigate return policies every day without such a law. Is that really a better use of time?
    - glad_duck 4mo ago
      It's not a hyperbole. Generous return terms means you are paying more for goods, everybody does. Where do you think goods returned to Amazon go to die? They are sold at discount, and Amazon is not dumb, they are not working at a loss, so you pay more for new goods. The less risk, the higher the price. If you have a law, that means no matter where you buy, you pay a premium as it's already included. I would prefer to have a choice. And you don't have to buy on Amazon, most companies in the US accept returns in this way or another. Some ask you to pay a small premium for returns, it's up to you to pay it or not. Those who don't accept back damaged goods (no matter what policy is) usually got chargebacks which are commonly approved by the banks, and it's pretty expensive for sellers. So there are many ways to regulate returns, law is not the only one.

The word "most" is doing a lot here. Europe guarantees consumer rights by law, while the US relies on companies adopting the practices voluntarily. Most do, but larger companies more universally than smaller, and it's by no means universal.

keiferski 4mo ago
It's the reality for the vast majority of larger companies. Quibbling with word choice is really not a good argument.
- lompad 4mo ago
  Try canceling your NYT subscription.
  - Saline9515 4mo ago
    The same exists in the EU, French Le Monde (NYT local equivalent) required you for a long time to send a registered letter costing 7€ and a trip to the post office to cancel your subscription.
  - r4indeer 4mo ago
    Let me support your argument by telling you what you just reminded me of... I was briefly subscribed to the NYT from Germany. To my surprise, I couldn't cancel online, but had to call. (The EU has a law which requires that if you can subscribe online, you must be able to cancel online.) They have national numbers for many countries, but they're just forwarders to the same call center, with notably mangled audio quality presumably due to multiple lossy compression algorithms applied at each hop of the call. Additionally, there was lots of background noise when I got connected to a rep. Over this barely usable line, I was now asked to spell out my email address, which naturally took multiple attempts of painfully slow spelling before the rep was able to locate my account. (My very limited knowledge of the NATO alphabet didn't help.) Of course, I then had to go through the spiel of declining alternative offers and providing a reason for my cancellation (all of which I never had to do in Germany before) before they finally confirmed it. Yeah, I'm glad about consumer protection law in the EU.
  - glad_duck 4mo ago
    So don't subscribe. It's not that hard to cancel though, yes, you need to spend some time on the phone.
- jeromegv 4mo ago
  We are talking of entrepreneurship and new companies, what small business are required to do for returns/refunds in the US is definitely not ahead of Europe for consumer protection. It's not word choice, you are just making the wrong argument.
glad_duck 4mo ago
Don't buy if you don't like company policy, no need to have a law. There is plenty of choice in the US. Some companies even offer 90 days (again, no laws required).
- 9dev 4mo ago
  I'd find it tiresome real quick to always have to research before purchasing anything if the vendor will treat me with respect. Having a baseline of what you can expect from any business relation guaranteed by law is pretty great, really.
  - glad_duck 4mo ago
    Really? There are tons of ways to cheat and game any system, including consumer protection. No laws can close this completely. Darwin award is still a thing and will always be.

tyg13 4mo ago

most large companies, maybe, but small-to-medium-sized businesses can and will tell you to take a hike. there are no consumer protections in the US regarding returns beyond the goodwill of the company

glad_duck 4mo ago
That's why they are dying (those who tell you to take a hike). Why would I buy from a small business without a possibility to return if I can buy from Amazon with guaranteed 30 days? It's your choice. Honestly, I bought enough stuff from small to medium companies and most of them allow returns. If not, it's my choice not to buy. Not everything should be a law, and laws are not free, somebody has to pay (just like for 30 day return). Guess who pays? Well, it's ... you.
- 9dev 4mo ago
  > Why would I buy from a small business without a possibility to return if I can buy from Amazon with guaranteed 30 days? Perhaps because you don't want all retail to be Amazon? > laws are not free, somebody has to pay Isn't that a bit hyperbole? That law is written once, and delivers its effects afterwards. In contrast, millions of buyers have to investigate return policies every day without such a law. Is that really a better use of time?
  - glad_duck 4mo ago
    It's not a hyperbole. Generous return terms means you are paying more for goods, everybody does. Where do you think goods returned to Amazon go to die? They are sold at discount, and Amazon is not dumb, they are not working at a loss, so you pay more for new goods. The less risk, the higher the price. If you have a law, that means no matter where you buy, you pay a premium as it's already included. I would prefer to have a choice. And you don't have to buy on Amazon, most companies in the US accept returns in this way or another. Some ask you to pay a small premium for returns, it's up to you to pay it or not. Those who don't accept back damaged goods (no matter what policy is) usually got chargebacks which are commonly approved by the banks, and it's pretty expensive for sellers. So there are many ways to regulate returns, law is not the only one.