4 ms·

> still pretty inexpensive Can we stop being so out of touch and/or deluding ourselves to believe $35k is “pretty inexpensive” for people not living in a bubbl

> still pretty inexpensive Can we stop being so out of touch and/or deluding ourselves to believe $35k is “pretty inexpensive” for people not living in a bubble; whether that is the Americas bubble or the tech bubble within the bubble or the urban bubble within that; let alone for a tiny two seater electric truck that has a 200 mile range. The 45th percentile, i.e., the bottom 90% have a median income of roughly $40,000. $35,000 for a enclosed covered or even hatchback type mini SUV is not reasonable and you know very well when they come out with that, it’s going to be at least $40,000. None of that is inexpensive or even pretty inexpensive. That’s just rationalization and coping, trying to convince ourselves and others of things that are incongruent. “Pretty inexpensive” would be an enclosed bed version that cost $22,000 maybe. For additional context; the industry standard measure of income to cost ratio has risen from 9.3 weeks of household income gross pay for a baseline vehicle, i.e., civic, in 1973 to, 16.5 weeks of gross pay in 2024; and that’s based on the fraudulent official inflation numbers. Yet more context, a civic can seat 5 people and still has a range of 450 miles on a tank of gasoline that you can find all over the place, even in far off rural places OSD puppy can carry gasoline with you if need be. There is no sense in rationalizing and deluding ourselves about the real limitations that still exists that are real and are why adoption is not matching imaginations.

bryanlarsen 4mo ago
There are lots of vehicles available for $22K. On the used market. Buying new is a privilege. A $35K vehicle will reach $22K on the used market a lot faster than a $60K vehicle will.
- unregistereddev 3mo ago
  There are new hybrids available for $30k. There are new vehicles available for $22k. There are reasonable used vehicles available for $10k. The problem with the Slate isn't that cheaper vehicles exist. The problem with the Slate is that you can buy nicer, better equipped vehicles for the same price.
  - jwx48 3mo ago
    ...that use gasoline, and come from a dealership that is actively hostile. I'd rather take my chances on the Slate to replace my 13 year old car.
vel0city 4mo ago
> tank of gasoline that you can find all over the place I can find electricity in far more places than I can gasoline. It even comes out of my walls. Do you have gasoline piping throughout your home?
- baby_souffle 3mo ago
  Lots of people only have street parking or their apartment complex has detached parking where they can't realistically charge overnight. But otherwise... Yeah, That's absolutely amazing to wake up every morning to a full tank/charge
  - aidenn0 3mo ago
    My mom has an EV, and when my parents bought their condo they got a promise in writing that they could install a charger at their parking spot. Condo board reneged on that agreement and so she's selling her EV to buy a hybrid. If gas prices return to pre-Iran-war it will be cheaper than paying to use an L3 charger, and even if they don't it will be far more convenient.
    - baby_souffle 3mo ago
      Sorry to hear that the HOA is earning their reputation :(. > If gas prices return to pre-Iran-war it will be cheaper than paying to use an L3 charger, and even if they don't it will be far more convenient. Yeah, that's Toyota's main argument for not diving head-first into EVs. Yes, merging the two technologies means you have the complexity of both... but after a decade+ of experience, they've gotten it down to be pretty reliable. For a lot of people, that's still the best choice assuming you don't mind the budget for wear-items / oil changes ... etc. When my current econobox is _done_, I will probably go straight to EV just so I don't have wear-items to deal with and because I either drive a few hundred miles per week or fly. I don't need to account for family road trips or anything else that make the ubiquitous fuel station network worth it.
      - vel0city 3mo ago
unregistereddev 3mo ago
I completely agree. A base Prius is $30k. A base Kia Niro is $27k. Those are hybrids and not EV's, but 50+mpg is not bad. Those also come with power windows and many other features and creature comforts that the Slate doesn't. $35k is not outrageous for a new car, but the Slate is supposed to be affordable basic transportation. Slate is selling barebones, stripped down basic transportation for the price of a middle class family car.
- rpdillon 3mo ago
  On the flip side, if you want a car that doesn't try to track you and record you, and doesn't upsell you on a subscription for seatwarmers, and doesn't use gas, Slate looks pretty attractive.
  - WillAdams 3mo ago
    I'd be interested in what they could do for a competitor to my Geo Metro/Chevy Aveo, esp. w/ a convertible option.
  - numpad0 3mo ago
    The center console touchscreen is just a self contained vestigial free entertainment, not the "core" of the car by any means. They're exactly what airplane seatback monitors are. The trackers aren't in the infotainment. Removing the infotainment do not solve the tracker problem.
    - zephen 3mo ago
      But what problem would keeping the infotainment system solve?
bluGill 3mo ago
Most people don't buy new cars, they buy used cars. Particularly in the bottom 45%, they know they can't afford a new car - they might look at them but they know they know it is a dream (or the car they will buy in 5 years). Car makers know they can only charge this price for a new car because in 3 years it will still have a lot of value left - most new car buyers never pay the full price: they only pay the difference between the cost and the value in 3 years (plus interest).
- WillAdams 3mo ago
  Time was, CAFE forced Detroit to build affordable cars which folks could buy new --- rather miss that --- that said, I'm never going to buy an all-electronic vehicle w/ multiple screens (still annoyed about the radio on my current vehicle going out) GPS tracking and built-in monitoring by way of a backup camera and so forth.
  - bluGill 3mo ago
    Even at the height of that, most people were buying used cars. However the cheap CAFE cars did bring in a few people who would be on the fence of affording a new car. Those cheap cars also got people who could afford a bigger car, but the price was compelling anyway.
- BizarroLand 3mo ago
  I made $225k last year, still have never bought a new car. Closest I got was a 9 month old car with 29k miles on it for $15k off list price. Seriously tempted with the Slate though. I have the $50 pre-registration down from a few years ago, so I could have it in July-August of next year.
alistairSH 3mo ago
A new Honda Civic is $25k, so the same as the Slate. The average new car price in the US is $50k, so double the Slate base price and still significantly more than the upgraded Slate I built. As far as I can tell, the US market has only one sub-$20k car - the base Nissan Versa.
- officeplant 3mo ago
  The versa is dead now. The Hyundai Venue is now the cheapest base model vehicle in America at nearly $22k.
aidenn0 3mo ago
In '73 a Chevy Nova just under $2500, which CPI is just under $20k. Median household income was around $12k $25k is about right for a cheap new car today (you can get a few base models for less than that, but good luck finding one). Median household income is around $83k. So a cheap new car cost went up by 10x but income only went up by less than 5x. Inflation implies it should cost 8x as much, but it costs 10x as much. Of course the Chevy Nova didn't have ABS, airbags, a touch screen, an automatic transmission, power steering, or retractable seat belts. Car companies could make models without some of these (though most are required by law; can't even have a car without a screen since RVC is mandated). But now they would be competing with used cars that have most, if not all, of these things and cost less.
win311fwg 3mo ago
> Can we stop being so out of touch and/or deluding ourselves to believe $35k is “pretty inexpensive” [...] let alone for a tiny two seater electric truck that has a 200 mile range. It suppose is "pretty inexpensive" compared to other new trucks you can buy right now. However, my much more equipped, full size truck cost less, inflation adjusted even, than this thing when it was new. Today's truck market baffles me.

bryanlarsen 4mo ago

There are lots of vehicles available for $22K. On the used market. Buying new is a privilege. A $35K vehicle will reach $22K on the used market a lot faster than a $60K vehicle will.

unregistereddev 3mo ago
There are new hybrids available for $30k. There are new vehicles available for $22k. There are reasonable used vehicles available for $10k. The problem with the Slate isn't that cheaper vehicles exist. The problem with the Slate is that you can buy nicer, better equipped vehicles for the same price.
- jwx48 3mo ago
  ...that use gasoline, and come from a dealership that is actively hostile. I'd rather take my chances on the Slate to replace my 13 year old car.

vel0city 4mo ago

> tank of gasoline that you can find all over the place I can find electricity in far more places than I can gasoline. It even comes out of my walls. Do you have gasoline piping throughout your home?

baby_souffle 3mo ago
Lots of people only have street parking or their apartment complex has detached parking where they can't realistically charge overnight. But otherwise... Yeah, That's absolutely amazing to wake up every morning to a full tank/charge
- aidenn0 3mo ago
  My mom has an EV, and when my parents bought their condo they got a promise in writing that they could install a charger at their parking spot. Condo board reneged on that agreement and so she's selling her EV to buy a hybrid. If gas prices return to pre-Iran-war it will be cheaper than paying to use an L3 charger, and even if they don't it will be far more convenient.
  - baby_souffle 3mo ago
    Sorry to hear that the HOA is earning their reputation :(. > If gas prices return to pre-Iran-war it will be cheaper than paying to use an L3 charger, and even if they don't it will be far more convenient. Yeah, that's Toyota's main argument for not diving head-first into EVs. Yes, merging the two technologies means you have the complexity of both... but after a decade+ of experience, they've gotten it down to be pretty reliable. For a lot of people, that's still the best choice assuming you don't mind the budget for wear-items / oil changes ... etc. When my current econobox is _done_, I will probably go straight to EV just so I don't have wear-items to deal with and because I either drive a few hundred miles per week or fly. I don't need to account for family road trips or anything else that make the ubiquitous fuel station network worth it.
    - vel0city 3mo ago

unregistereddev 3mo ago

I completely agree. A base Prius is $30k. A base Kia Niro is $27k. Those are hybrids and not EV's, but 50+mpg is not bad. Those also come with power windows and many other features and creature comforts that the Slate doesn't. $35k is not outrageous for a new car, but the Slate is supposed to be affordable basic transportation. Slate is selling barebones, stripped down basic transportation for the price of a middle class family car.

rpdillon 3mo ago
On the flip side, if you want a car that doesn't try to track you and record you, and doesn't upsell you on a subscription for seatwarmers, and doesn't use gas, Slate looks pretty attractive.
- WillAdams 3mo ago
  I'd be interested in what they could do for a competitor to my Geo Metro/Chevy Aveo, esp. w/ a convertible option.
- numpad0 3mo ago
  The center console touchscreen is just a self contained vestigial free entertainment, not the "core" of the car by any means. They're exactly what airplane seatback monitors are. The trackers aren't in the infotainment. Removing the infotainment do not solve the tracker problem.
  - zephen 3mo ago
    But what problem would keeping the infotainment system solve?

bluGill 3mo ago

Most people don't buy new cars, they buy used cars. Particularly in the bottom 45%, they know they can't afford a new car - they might look at them but they know they know it is a dream (or the car they will buy in 5 years). Car makers know they can only charge this price for a new car because in 3 years it will still have a lot of value left - most new car buyers never pay the full price: they only pay the difference between the cost and the value in 3 years (plus interest).

WillAdams 3mo ago
Time was, CAFE forced Detroit to build affordable cars which folks could buy new --- rather miss that --- that said, I'm never going to buy an all-electronic vehicle w/ multiple screens (still annoyed about the radio on my current vehicle going out) GPS tracking and built-in monitoring by way of a backup camera and so forth.
- bluGill 3mo ago
  Even at the height of that, most people were buying used cars. However the cheap CAFE cars did bring in a few people who would be on the fence of affording a new car. Those cheap cars also got people who could afford a bigger car, but the price was compelling anyway.
BizarroLand 3mo ago
I made $225k last year, still have never bought a new car. Closest I got was a 9 month old car with 29k miles on it for $15k off list price. Seriously tempted with the Slate though. I have the $50 pre-registration down from a few years ago, so I could have it in July-August of next year.

alistairSH 3mo ago

A new Honda Civic is $25k, so the same as the Slate. The average new car price in the US is $50k, so double the Slate base price and still significantly more than the upgraded Slate I built. As far as I can tell, the US market has only one sub-$20k car - the base Nissan Versa.

officeplant 3mo ago
The versa is dead now. The Hyundai Venue is now the cheapest base model vehicle in America at nearly $22k.

aidenn0 3mo ago

In '73 a Chevy Nova just under $2500, which CPI is just under $20k. Median household income was around $12k $25k is about right for a cheap new car today (you can get a few base models for less than that, but good luck finding one). Median household income is around $83k. So a cheap new car cost went up by 10x but income only went up by less than 5x. Inflation implies it should cost 8x as much, but it costs 10x as much. Of course the Chevy Nova didn't have ABS, airbags, a touch screen, an automatic transmission, power steering, or retractable seat belts. Car companies could make models without some of these (though most are required by law; can't even have a car without a screen since RVC is mandated). But now they would be competing with used cars that have most, if not all, of these things and cost less.

win311fwg 3mo ago

> Can we stop being so out of touch and/or deluding ourselves to believe $35k is “pretty inexpensive” [...] let alone for a tiny two seater electric truck that has a 200 mile range. It suppose is "pretty inexpensive" compared to other new trucks you can buy right now. However, my much more equipped, full size truck cost less, inflation adjusted even, than this thing when it was new. Today's truck market baffles me.