3 ms·

You phrase this as if it’s absurd. Why should it be possible to offshore your future capital gains without paying an exit tax? You live in a country with a tax

by tene80i 3mo ago

You phrase this as if it’s absurd. Why should it be possible to offshore your future capital gains without paying an exit tax? You live in a country with a tax system that assumes people pay into it.

DANmode 3mo ago
[flagged]
- munk-a 3mo ago
  The premise of taxes?
  - DANmode 3mo ago
    If you equate (antiquated, paper-based, multi-departmental) bureaucracy with taxes, then that’s a shame.
- WarmWash 3mo ago
  Your question is more well formed if you challenge the premise that the tax you owe should scale linearly with the value of your assets. Obviously a business benefits from things the state provides, and the business should pay it's share to cover those costs. Maybe, honestly, even a little extra. The challenge is if someone makes a software company, and a team of 20 workers on computers create a €10B business, does the state have a fair claim to €5B of it when the company at most with the most generous possible estimate (and then double it for good measure) used €50M of state services?
  - dns_snek 3mo ago
    > does the state have a fair claim to €5B of it when the company at most with the most generous possible estimate (and then double it for good measure) used €50M of state services? Yes, it does. Quite simply because that's the law, and it's morally right (in principle) because if your business fails then you don't get a bill for 50 million. If "winners" only paid their exact share then these services wouldn't exist.
    - WarmWash 3mo ago
      I explicitly stated (twice) they would (and should) pay more then their exact share. The real cost would likely be in the neighborhood of $500k too (20 SWEs traveling to work doesn't incur much cost, plus the 21/population cost of mainstay services (police, fire, government misc/infra)), never mind the workers are paying taxes on their income too. So $50m would cover their true societal cost (I'll multiply it by 10 for you, call it $5m) 10x over. Its extremely difficult to build a clearly logical structure where a company that made a wildly successful product needs to hand half the value to the government. It's very easy to do if we hand wave with ambiguous terms like "right thing to do" and "morally obligated".
      - dns_snek 3mo ago
        > Its extremely difficult to build a clearly logical structure where a company that made a wildly successful product needs to hand half the value to the government. I think it's rather simple. If they don't do that, does the house of cards that we call a society collapse? > It's very easy to do if we hand wave with ambiguous terms... It's equally easy to be dismissive about the cost of running a stable society. If you want poor people to pick up your 5 billion euro tab then you're never going to make those 10 billion to begin with because people won't have the money to afford whatever it is that you're selling. I've yet to hear a coherent argument on how you think you can pay 99% less in taxes and achieve the same outcomes? It's nothing but magical thinking. You want to pay 99% less and you want poor people to pay (a lot) more. Do you think poor people can afford to pay more? Do you not care? Don't you see that if you do that they'll violently overthrow the entire system that allowed you to become a multi-billionaire?
- lazyasciiart 3mo ago
  If that’s what they wanted to do, they would have to realize those gains. The state is doing the opposite of preventing this.
  - DANmode 3mo ago
    Are we reading the same story? How do you realize anything without being able to send an invoice and collect?
    - lazyasciiart 3mo ago
      We are in a thread about how someone can't even just move the company assets to another country without being taxed on them.
bloppe 3mo ago
Unrealized capital gains taxes generally are a bit absurd, but I can see how the state would feel forced to do it if you're leaving. Seems like there should be some way to get a registered agent or something to keep the old company legally "in Germany" while you leave, but idk
- deleted 3mo ago
  [deleted]
- user_of_the_wek 3mo ago
  You can avoid being taxed on unrealized gains by realizing them first ;)
ghusto 3mo ago
It is absurd to be taxed on _unrealised_ gains, even more absurd to hold you hostage over it.

by tene80i 3mo ago

DANmode 3mo ago

[flagged]

munk-a 3mo ago
The premise of taxes?
- DANmode 3mo ago
  If you equate (antiquated, paper-based, multi-departmental) bureaucracy with taxes, then that’s a shame.
WarmWash 3mo ago
Your question is more well formed if you challenge the premise that the tax you owe should scale linearly with the value of your assets. Obviously a business benefits from things the state provides, and the business should pay it's share to cover those costs. Maybe, honestly, even a little extra. The challenge is if someone makes a software company, and a team of 20 workers on computers create a €10B business, does the state have a fair claim to €5B of it when the company at most with the most generous possible estimate (and then double it for good measure) used €50M of state services?
- dns_snek 3mo ago
  > does the state have a fair claim to €5B of it when the company at most with the most generous possible estimate (and then double it for good measure) used €50M of state services? Yes, it does. Quite simply because that's the law, and it's morally right (in principle) because if your business fails then you don't get a bill for 50 million. If "winners" only paid their exact share then these services wouldn't exist.
  - WarmWash 3mo ago
    I explicitly stated (twice) they would (and should) pay more then their exact share. The real cost would likely be in the neighborhood of $500k too (20 SWEs traveling to work doesn't incur much cost, plus the 21/population cost of mainstay services (police, fire, government misc/infra)), never mind the workers are paying taxes on their income too. So $50m would cover their true societal cost (I'll multiply it by 10 for you, call it $5m) 10x over. Its extremely difficult to build a clearly logical structure where a company that made a wildly successful product needs to hand half the value to the government. It's very easy to do if we hand wave with ambiguous terms like "right thing to do" and "morally obligated".
    - dns_snek 3mo ago
      > Its extremely difficult to build a clearly logical structure where a company that made a wildly successful product needs to hand half the value to the government. I think it's rather simple. If they don't do that, does the house of cards that we call a society collapse? > It's very easy to do if we hand wave with ambiguous terms... It's equally easy to be dismissive about the cost of running a stable society. If you want poor people to pick up your 5 billion euro tab then you're never going to make those 10 billion to begin with because people won't have the money to afford whatever it is that you're selling. I've yet to hear a coherent argument on how you think you can pay 99% less in taxes and achieve the same outcomes? It's nothing but magical thinking. You want to pay 99% less and you want poor people to pay (a lot) more. Do you think poor people can afford to pay more? Do you not care? Don't you see that if you do that they'll violently overthrow the entire system that allowed you to become a multi-billionaire?
lazyasciiart 3mo ago
If that’s what they wanted to do, they would have to realize those gains. The state is doing the opposite of preventing this.
- DANmode 3mo ago
  Are we reading the same story? How do you realize anything without being able to send an invoice and collect?
  - lazyasciiart 3mo ago
    We are in a thread about how someone can't even just move the company assets to another country without being taxed on them.

bloppe 3mo ago

Unrealized capital gains taxes generally are a bit absurd, but I can see how the state would feel forced to do it if you're leaving. Seems like there should be some way to get a registered agent or something to keep the old company legally "in Germany" while you leave, but idk

deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
user_of_the_wek 3mo ago
You can avoid being taxed on unrealized gains by realizing them first ;)

ghusto 3mo ago

It is absurd to be taxed on _unrealised_ gains, even more absurd to hold you hostage over it.