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I was trying to pay attention to the actual claim and I got: 1. Children died during the ceasefire 2. Israel is using larger bomb payloads than it should (accor
by gershy 4mo ago
I was trying to pay attention to the actual claim and I got:
1. Children died during the ceasefire
2. Israel is using larger bomb payloads than it should (according to who?) in civilian areas
3. Higher percentage of child deaths than in earlier conflicts
Still, for me, doesn't add up to "Israel deliberately targetted gaza children" - is the claim that this is systemic? Or rampant? Or just by some individuals? And how do we know?
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- andriy_koval 4mo agoThe claim in report is that Israel deliberately targeted newborn delivery hospitals and similar. I don't think they have proof of "deliberately", I assume hamas people could use those hospitals as potentially safe zones for gathering, weapons stashes, etc.
- Computer0 4mo agoIt's pretty clear Israel systematically kills Palestinian children to those paying attention. According to a public statement by the United Nations, Gaza has the highest number of child amputees per capita in the world. At least 21,289 children have been killed. They starve the population, drive them out of their homes. (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(25)01541-7/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...) This is the modus operandi of the Zionist belief system. It is a colonial settler ideology and they have to eradicate the natives, much like American settlers killed the native people and destroyed their way of life until they could keep them in tiny """sovereign nations""" where they would be crushed if they every truly tried to display any real sense of sovereignty. To be sovereign is to have a government with a monopoly on violence, the "reservations" are occupied.
- lovich 4mo agoI gotta be honest, the phrase “colonial settler ideology” gets an instant eye roll and detracts from the rest of your statements. Most nations on the planet are formed of settlers unless you think there were always Russians in Siberia, or there were always Anglo-Saxons on Albion.
- Computer0 4mo agoThose happened many lifetimes ago. Much like the slave trade we recognize these actions by our ancestors to be wrong. There are many different conversations about "Land Back" or reparations for those affected by these systems, which often lead to nowhere. The distinction is this is happening today.
- hardbass 4mo agoYes for example if a religious extremist British faction were trying to colonize Native American america today, I'd gladly support funding and arming them against the invaders. Whats centuries past is past, what is happening today is important.
- gershy 4mo agoThis positions israel as the invader, but pro-israelis (like myself) will argue that historically israeli jews+arabs are the indigenous population, and have been the target of invasion, and israeli territorial expansion has been through arguably defensive wars. In your example I immediately think "you'd never support a native movement that willfully and indiscriminately murdered a bunch of british citizens". And to me it's an even weaker argument, as jews are indigenous to not-too-far-off from the borders of modern day israel - in a way that does not correspond to brits in america.
- hardbass 4mo agoI don't mind the jews already living in the region. If European whites had immigrated peacefully and with consent of those already living then none of these problems would exist or would be much smaller. But no, we have Europeans forcibly carving out a chunk of that land and today we have classic "Levatine tribes" like the...Milejkowskis lording over that patch and killing the actual peoples who lived for centuries before them. These people are mostly Poles, Russians, Germans not natives.
- 4mo ago
- gershy 4mo agoI'm trying to see the argument for "Israel deliberately targets children", closest thing I got was "Israel has made lots of children into amputees" - can you provide more info?
- andriy_koval 4mo agoI think its obvious that there will be a lot of children amputees in active denstly populated warzone.
- gershy 4mo agoI think there's an ethical difference between "we need to wage war on a densely populated area", and "we need to wage war on a densely populated area, let's make sure to harm the vulnerable people we encounter there". This is what I'm trying to differentiate between.
- andriy_koval 4mo agoWe won't know without analyzing protocols how Israel picks targets. Also, harming civilians is the norm in modern world. Russia absolutely deliberately is targeting critical civilian infra in Ukraine (e.g. grid during cold winter).
- t0mpr1c3 4mo agoIf the effect of your actions is a war crime, you are a war criminal. If the Russians also do it, that is additional evidence of war crimes.
- andriy_koval 4mo ago> If the effect of your actions is a war crime, you are a war criminal. war crimes usually defined by intent: were civilians targeted intentionally.
- clydethefrog 4mo agoThe European Press Prize this year went to "What the wounds are telling us", an investigation into the wounds of Palestinian dead children. I recommend you read it. https://www.europeanpressprize.com/article/what-the-wounds-are-telling-us/ https://www.europeanpressprize.com/article/what-the-wounds-a...
- gershy 4mo agoI am interested to know the overall scale at which this is happening. Disturbing but illuminating, thanks for the link!
- gershy 4mo agoI'm digging into this a bit. Looks like the 114 figure (certainly a conservative number) occurred early in the conflict, in the period of late Oct 2023 until March 2024 - in the same time the hamas health ministry reported ~25000 casualties; the deliberately targeted children account for ~0.4% of all the casualties, and ~1.5% of all child casualties. Enough to say "Israel is deliberately targeting"?
- pvaldes 4mo agoAfter 20.000 children assasinated, with the necessary support and complicity of Biden and Trump governments, yes. Is more than enough. I have to force myself to read that link until the end. And it says what everybody in Europe has been saying for years, but Israel people still refuses to see. We need to develop technology able to register this events even from a big distance. Even if the phones are forbbiden. And the war criminals must be judged and jailed, as they are not clearly part of the humanity anymore. A drone able to snatch and remove snippers alive if they are killing children is required.
- gershy 4mo agoTragic as it is, 20,000 children can be lost even in a justified war. It looks like historically, retaliatory wars are initially especially aggressive, lethal and indiscriminate (likely due in part to emotional soldiers who desire to punish whoever they are retaliating against). Is Israel conducting a war here that aligns with the historical trend?
- Zvez 4mo agoyes, unfortunately this is all evidence people here needed