3 ms·

You are looking at it the wrong way. Driving something so large that it would require a commercial license to transport your family around is ridiculous

by rypskar 3mo ago

tinfoilhatter 3mo ago
They don't require commercial licenses though, because they're not large enough to and don't serve a commercial purpose when transporting families / their things. Plenty of families have the need for third-row seating and the ability to haul things around.
- treis 3mo ago
  That's not the issue. The issue is how tall these grills are and to a lesser extent curb weight. You don't need either to have third row seating or the ability to haul things.
- jounker 3mo ago
  My minivan seats seven. It has the footprint as a toyota camry. It’s only marginally heavier than a camry. Can you please explain to me again why you need a lincoln navigator or the like?
  - AnthonyMouse 3mo ago
    Toyota Camry curb weight is ~3300 pounds. The minivan based on the Camry is the Sienna, curb weight ~4600 lbs. Lincoln Navigator curb weight ~5600 lbs. If the difference between the first two is marginal (~30%), the difference between the second two is less (~20%). By comparison, actual CDL-requiring commercial trucks weigh up to 80,000 pounds.
    - asdff 3mo ago
      Now look at the front end of a toyota sienna vs a lincoln navigator. One slopes down so that you might actually see what is in front of you and allows for pedestrians to impact and roll up and off. The other is effectively a brick notorious for making it difficult to see obstructions in front of you as well as creating an impact that would sooner see the pedestrian explode into a bloody mess over just rolling up and off.
      - AnthonyMouse 3mo ago
        Which has nothing to do with the weight of the vehicle. The Audi SQ8 E-Tron has a sloped hood and weighs more than the Navigator. There are vehicles with a square grille that weigh less than the Sienna.
        olyjohn 3mo ago
        Time for all of the crossover drivers to admit that they are also part of the problem. They aren't safe just because they are somewhat better than some jacked up bro truck.
        AnthonyMouse 3mo ago
        The real issue is that the hood on the Sienna is basically the same height as the one on most crossovers, because that's the nature of a vehicle with tall roof (necessary for cargo capacity). The hood/windshield has to ascend quickly to reach that height unless you want the hood to be longer, but a longer hood would negatively impact the ability of the driver to see children directly in front of the vehicle. A lot of this is also dictated by the safety requirements for vehicle collisions, because a vehicle where the front of the hood is lower than the bumper on the other vehicle (which could be a pickup truck) causes the hood to act as a ramp instead of a crumple zone, and then the occupants get hit in the head by a truck.
  - zubiaur 3mo ago
    Mazda 5?
- kube-system 3mo ago
  The claim is not that they do, it is that they should. The high hood trend post-2009 has provides no functional utility.
  - xnx 3mo ago
    > no functional utility Air cooling while towing (allegedly), but it must be a tiny percentage of owners that tow at all.
    - kube-system 3mo ago
      There were adequate engineering solutions for towing even as far back as 2008. The high-hood trend on US passenger trucks is unique to US market vehicles and is factually cosmetic.
    - olyjohn 3mo ago
      You mean cooling a 700lb-ft engine. Which is totally unnecessary. You don't need to do 80mph up the steepest hill in the world while towing 20,000lbs.
      - 486sx33 3mo ago
        [dead]
      - ultrarunner 3mo ago
        Not only do they not need to, they need to actively stop doing that. These are the folks who light brakes & tires on fire, which then spreads to the mountains. There are dozens of spot, brush, and outright wildfires every year from these people.
        ultrarunner 3mo ago
        Oh look, since I posted, another one. https://www.azfamily.com/2026/06/24/watch-vehicle-fire-sparks-wildfire-along-highway-northeast-phoenix/ https://www.azfamily.com/2026/06/24/watch-vehicle-fire-spark...
- bastawhiz 3mo ago
  > they're not large enough to Based on whose opinion? > Plenty of families have the need for third-row seating A 1993 Buick Roadmaster Station wagon has a comfortable third row while being shorter than the top of the steering wheel on a 2025 GMC Yukon Denali.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Driving something so large that it would require a commercial license to transport your family around is ridiculous

by rypskar 3mo ago

You are looking at it the wrong way. Driving something so large that it would require a commercial license to transport your family around is ridiculous

tinfoilhatter 3mo ago

They don't require commercial licenses though, because they're not large enough to and don't serve a commercial purpose when transporting families / their things. Plenty of families have the need for third-row seating and the ability to haul things around.

treis 3mo ago
That's not the issue. The issue is how tall these grills are and to a lesser extent curb weight. You don't need either to have third row seating or the ability to haul things.
jounker 3mo ago
My minivan seats seven. It has the footprint as a toyota camry. It’s only marginally heavier than a camry. Can you please explain to me again why you need a lincoln navigator or the like?
- AnthonyMouse 3mo ago
  Toyota Camry curb weight is ~3300 pounds. The minivan based on the Camry is the Sienna, curb weight ~4600 lbs. Lincoln Navigator curb weight ~5600 lbs. If the difference between the first two is marginal (~30%), the difference between the second two is less (~20%). By comparison, actual CDL-requiring commercial trucks weigh up to 80,000 pounds.
  - asdff 3mo ago
    Now look at the front end of a toyota sienna vs a lincoln navigator. One slopes down so that you might actually see what is in front of you and allows for pedestrians to impact and roll up and off. The other is effectively a brick notorious for making it difficult to see obstructions in front of you as well as creating an impact that would sooner see the pedestrian explode into a bloody mess over just rolling up and off.
    - AnthonyMouse 3mo ago
      Which has nothing to do with the weight of the vehicle. The Audi SQ8 E-Tron has a sloped hood and weighs more than the Navigator. There are vehicles with a square grille that weigh less than the Sienna.
      - olyjohn 3mo ago
        Time for all of the crossover drivers to admit that they are also part of the problem. They aren't safe just because they are somewhat better than some jacked up bro truck.
        AnthonyMouse 3mo ago
        The real issue is that the hood on the Sienna is basically the same height as the one on most crossovers, because that's the nature of a vehicle with tall roof (necessary for cargo capacity). The hood/windshield has to ascend quickly to reach that height unless you want the hood to be longer, but a longer hood would negatively impact the ability of the driver to see children directly in front of the vehicle. A lot of this is also dictated by the safety requirements for vehicle collisions, because a vehicle where the front of the hood is lower than the bumper on the other vehicle (which could be a pickup truck) causes the hood to act as a ramp instead of a crumple zone, and then the occupants get hit in the head by a truck.
- zubiaur 3mo ago
  Mazda 5?
kube-system 3mo ago
The claim is not that they do, it is that they should. The high hood trend post-2009 has provides no functional utility.
- xnx 3mo ago
  > no functional utility Air cooling while towing (allegedly), but it must be a tiny percentage of owners that tow at all.
  - kube-system 3mo ago
    There were adequate engineering solutions for towing even as far back as 2008. The high-hood trend on US passenger trucks is unique to US market vehicles and is factually cosmetic.
  - olyjohn 3mo ago
    You mean cooling a 700lb-ft engine. Which is totally unnecessary. You don't need to do 80mph up the steepest hill in the world while towing 20,000lbs.
    - 486sx33 3mo ago
      [dead]
    - ultrarunner 3mo ago
      Not only do they not need to, they need to actively stop doing that. These are the folks who light brakes & tires on fire, which then spreads to the mountains. There are dozens of spot, brush, and outright wildfires every year from these people.
      - ultrarunner 3mo ago
        Oh look, since I posted, another one. https://www.azfamily.com/2026/06/24/watch-vehicle-fire-sparks-wildfire-along-highway-northeast-phoenix/ https://www.azfamily.com/2026/06/24/watch-vehicle-fire-spark...
bastawhiz 3mo ago
> they're not large enough to Based on whose opinion? > Plenty of families have the need for third-row seating A 1993 Buick Roadmaster Station wagon has a comfortable third row while being shorter than the top of the steering wheel on a 2025 GMC Yukon Denali.