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Reminder to all commenters that Europe is not a single homogeneous country and somewhat diverse in various things, including payments and finance. Credit cards

by lxgr 4mo ago

Reminder to all commenters that Europe is not a single homogeneous country and somewhat diverse in various things, including payments and finance. Credit cards are definitely a thing in many European countries.

ben_w 4mo ago
> Credit cards are definitely a thing in many European countries Yes, a thing associated with debt. I lived in the UK before Brexit, and that would be an example of such.
- lxgr 4mo ago
  You are of course free to extrapolate your experience from a single European country to the whole continent, but it's still not a coherent argument for or against anything.
- graemep 4mo ago
  A lot of people in the UK use credit cards for the extra legal protections, and for cash back and reward schemes. The UK has pay by bank, which is very like digital cash, and can be used online, but its much less used than cards are.
xquce 4mo ago
which ones use Credit Cards to a larger degree than Debit Cards, like they do in the US?
- lxgr 4mo ago
  That's not what GP said. They claimed that "everyone" in Europe uses debit cards, and that's just not true.
  - deleted 4mo ago
    [deleted]
- rsynnott 4mo ago
  I don't think anywhere does. In general, cards in Europe don't really give significant rewards (because interchange, paid ultimately by the merchant, is capped at 0.3%, whereas in the US it can be upwards of 3% for certain high-end cards). The only reason that people who don't need the credit line use them in the US is the rewards schemes.
PNewling 4mo ago
As an outsider: which countries lean which way? I'm curious how things trend where and I didn't even really know that debit was used by a majority in certain places (Countries? Regions? Historical based delimiters?).
- tlogan 4mo ago
  Germany is very debit-card oriented (with no interest of switching). The Netherlands seems similar. Eastern Europe and the Balkans are also mostly debit-card oriented, but people seem more open to switching to credit cards (if they can get one - especially the younger generation). Ireland and the U.K. seem much more credit-card oriented than rest of Europe. Turkey is also very CC oriented (kinda strange - was not expecting that).
  - physicsguy 4mo ago
    In the UK people predominantly use debit cards but credit cards are widely available. Everyone gets a debit card with any current account (i.e. non-savings account). In March this year there were 2.3 billion debit card transactions vs 400 million credit card transactions according to this: https://www.ukfinance.org.uk/data-and-research/data/card-spending https://www.ukfinance.org.uk/data-and-research/data/card-spe...
  - illiac786 4mo ago
    It used to be like that in Germany, it changed quite a bit. My debit card now is refused more often than my master card when I’m in Germany. I do tend to stay in large cities and not in the country side though, so my perspective is not a statistic. But it definitely changed massively during Covid. Before Covid shops refusing _any_ card where still common (again, large cities is my spectrum) and debit card were accepted vastly more often than credit card.
  - surgical_fire 4mo ago
    In Ireland and the UK, from experience, people use debit cards a lot more than credit cards.
  - 4mo ago
hyperman1 4mo ago
In my corner of the world, credit cards were for buying stuff on the internet and travelling outside the EU. Now the net has evelved enough to accept our normal means of payment. I always feel insecure when using a credit card.
- TFNA 4mo ago
  Pretty much all of the EU had Visa- and Mastercard-branded debit cards since the turn of the millennium, so one has been able to buy stuff from the net and travel abroad without use of a credit card for decades now.
- margalabargala 4mo ago
  As a US-ian I feel exactly that way when using a debit card. A credit card, if misused, can run up your balance and then you dispute, and don't pay anything until it's resolved. A debit card, if misused, can drain your account and leave you penniless until it's resolved.
  - kevin_thibedeau 4mo ago
    The fraud detection of the card processors is effective and they will disable a debit card before that happens. I've always had the money returned automatically the few times I've had one compromised.
    - ericmay 4mo ago
      Same fraud systems monitor credit cards except in the American case you get at worst 1% cash back so 1% off the purchase price of everything and if something does happen, and regardless of protections fraud still occurs, it’s the bank’s money that is gone and not yours. Separately the EU is a large collection of states and each one has its varying levels of participation and sophistication with payment processing. Apple and Google Pay are both widely used and that won’t change, and by and large there’s no good reason for Europeans to not accept American credit cards so they’ll continue to do so. Anyone telling you differently either doesn’t have the slightest idea what they’re talking about or they’re just caught up in a pointless anti-American fervor. Even in countries such as France American Express is accepted in more places.
guerrilla 4mo ago
Umm, no? Citation needed.
- lxgr 4mo ago
  For what? Credit cards existing in Europe and having more than zero users? I trust that Google will serve you well if you really don't believe me.
kyriakos 4mo ago
Only time ever used a credit card was to rent a car in Italy cause they didn't accept debit cards.

by lxgr 4mo ago

ben_w 4mo ago

> Credit cards are definitely a thing in many European countries Yes, a thing associated with debt. I lived in the UK before Brexit, and that would be an example of such.

lxgr 4mo ago
You are of course free to extrapolate your experience from a single European country to the whole continent, but it's still not a coherent argument for or against anything.
graemep 4mo ago
A lot of people in the UK use credit cards for the extra legal protections, and for cash back and reward schemes. The UK has pay by bank, which is very like digital cash, and can be used online, but its much less used than cards are.

xquce 4mo ago

which ones use Credit Cards to a larger degree than Debit Cards, like they do in the US?

lxgr 4mo ago
That's not what GP said. They claimed that "everyone" in Europe uses debit cards, and that's just not true.
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
rsynnott 4mo ago
I don't think anywhere does. In general, cards in Europe don't really give significant rewards (because interchange, paid ultimately by the merchant, is capped at 0.3%, whereas in the US it can be upwards of 3% for certain high-end cards). The only reason that people who don't need the credit line use them in the US is the rewards schemes.

PNewling 4mo ago

As an outsider: which countries lean which way? I'm curious how things trend where and I didn't even really know that debit was used by a majority in certain places (Countries? Regions? Historical based delimiters?).

tlogan 4mo ago
Germany is very debit-card oriented (with no interest of switching). The Netherlands seems similar. Eastern Europe and the Balkans are also mostly debit-card oriented, but people seem more open to switching to credit cards (if they can get one - especially the younger generation). Ireland and the U.K. seem much more credit-card oriented than rest of Europe. Turkey is also very CC oriented (kinda strange - was not expecting that).
- physicsguy 4mo ago
  In the UK people predominantly use debit cards but credit cards are widely available. Everyone gets a debit card with any current account (i.e. non-savings account). In March this year there were 2.3 billion debit card transactions vs 400 million credit card transactions according to this: https://www.ukfinance.org.uk/data-and-research/data/card-spending https://www.ukfinance.org.uk/data-and-research/data/card-spe...
- illiac786 4mo ago
  It used to be like that in Germany, it changed quite a bit. My debit card now is refused more often than my master card when I’m in Germany. I do tend to stay in large cities and not in the country side though, so my perspective is not a statistic. But it definitely changed massively during Covid. Before Covid shops refusing _any_ card where still common (again, large cities is my spectrum) and debit card were accepted vastly more often than credit card.
- surgical_fire 4mo ago
  In Ireland and the UK, from experience, people use debit cards a lot more than credit cards.
- 4mo ago

hyperman1 4mo ago

In my corner of the world, credit cards were for buying stuff on the internet and travelling outside the EU. Now the net has evelved enough to accept our normal means of payment. I always feel insecure when using a credit card.

TFNA 4mo ago
Pretty much all of the EU had Visa- and Mastercard-branded debit cards since the turn of the millennium, so one has been able to buy stuff from the net and travel abroad without use of a credit card for decades now.
margalabargala 4mo ago
As a US-ian I feel exactly that way when using a debit card. A credit card, if misused, can run up your balance and then you dispute, and don't pay anything until it's resolved. A debit card, if misused, can drain your account and leave you penniless until it's resolved.
- kevin_thibedeau 4mo ago
  The fraud detection of the card processors is effective and they will disable a debit card before that happens. I've always had the money returned automatically the few times I've had one compromised.
  - ericmay 4mo ago
    Same fraud systems monitor credit cards except in the American case you get at worst 1% cash back so 1% off the purchase price of everything and if something does happen, and regardless of protections fraud still occurs, it’s the bank’s money that is gone and not yours. Separately the EU is a large collection of states and each one has its varying levels of participation and sophistication with payment processing. Apple and Google Pay are both widely used and that won’t change, and by and large there’s no good reason for Europeans to not accept American credit cards so they’ll continue to do so. Anyone telling you differently either doesn’t have the slightest idea what they’re talking about or they’re just caught up in a pointless anti-American fervor. Even in countries such as France American Express is accepted in more places.

guerrilla 4mo ago

Umm, no? Citation needed.

lxgr 4mo ago
For what? Credit cards existing in Europe and having more than zero users? I trust that Google will serve you well if you really don't believe me.

kyriakos 4mo ago

Only time ever used a credit card was to rent a car in Italy cause they didn't accept debit cards.