4 ms·

It really is a shame for NBCU, and company, to ask Hulu to cut Boxee off. If I recall correctly, didn't content from Hulu that was piped into Boxee still have a

It really is a shame for NBCU, and company, to ask Hulu to cut Boxee off. If I recall correctly, didn't content from Hulu that was piped into Boxee still have ads? Hopefully someday they'll realize that when they cut off people from having legal access to their content, people will go back to their illegal methods. When will old media learn?

paulsmith 18y ago
If they would just think of the content as syndication ala RSS, or YouTube embedding, they'd recognize that we Boxee users see the same pre-/post-/middle-roll ads that appear on Hulu.com actual. This is especially frustrating for me because I set up my HTPC with Boxee expressly to have an easy-to-navigate interface for Hulu via my remote control.
- abstractbill 18y ago
  The old-media guys who made this decision almost certainly don't have a clue what RSS is. I share your viewpoint, but there are (still) many dinosaurs running this industry.
  - swlevy 18y ago
    It isn't quite that simple; I work for an "old media" company, and for us, Boxee jumped the gun by ingesting content prior to having the requisite agreement. Since they did not consult our developers, our ads were not implemented correctly, and we weren't getting paid (even though Boxee's users may have been seeing the ads).
    - bestes 18y ago
      Isn't this something you(or they) could fix on your end?
      - peregrine 18y ago
        Hulu probably signed an agreement with say Tivo or Microsoft(360), nintendo, sony, heck even samsung. To do the same thing but have people pay for it and get some royalties. This product only Hulu wasn't making any money with this. Boxee was full of people who would use Hulu without boxee and see the ads but the Hulu brand and ads wouldn't be connected as clearly as they would be online. In a recession things like that can fly but when your trying to make money you gotta work for it.
    - jnoller 18y ago
      Then work with them to forge the deal, instead of yanking your content and causing a frenzy which isn't in your favor. Maybe explain why the ads were not generating revenue, for starters. Just having it yanked begets bad blood. There's a lot of early adopters and people using boxee+hulu, and pulling it means people will simply tune you out.
    - jonursenbach 18y ago
      How is what Boxee was doing any different from the EMBED tag that Hulu gives out?
    - mechanical_fish 18y ago
      Have your employers considered how many ads the Bittorrent users are paying for? Boxee is taking off. Its users are voluntarily watching your ads. And, instead of trying to work with that and ride the wave, your tired media company is emasculating it. Sounds like the kind of brilliant logic that led the music publishers to destroy Napster, only stupider.
    - ja2ke 18y ago
      Progess is slow, and it's hard to get people to change, etc, but Boxee seems extraordinarily dedicated to getting real partners onto its service, and serving as much legal content as they can. I do think that they might be overstepping or at least stepping out of being "professional" by just integrating things like Hulu content, basically "rogue," but it's what they have to do to get a userbase and to get the buzz that they have. But now, they're here, and they want to play. There is a service and a userbase who are all clearly invested in supporting your legal content, sitting here staring content providers in the face. Surely entertainment hubris or ego will get in the way of things actually going smoothly in a situation like this, but its one of those times where I wish everyone would just shut up, play ball, and make money.
    - noahlt 18y ago
      "Since they did not consult our developers, our ads were not implemented correctly, and we weren't getting paid (even though Boxee's users may have been seeing the ads)." Honest question: don't you normally pay for ads, rather than getting paid for them? I must be missing something here.
zhyder 18y ago
Hulu.com does have fewer ads than broadcast TV (altho a DVR can circumvent ads on the latter). If NBC makes less per view on Hulu than it does on TV, this request makes some sense.
- wmf 18y ago
  No it doesn't, because whether you watch Hulu using Firefox or Boxee the same ads should be shown.
  - zhyder 18y ago
    I know. But when you bring up the same show on TV using over-the-air/satellite/cable you see more ads.
    - bjtitus 18y ago
      Then why don't they shut Hulu down?
      - zhyder 18y ago
        1. Hulu is where they're testing the waters of Internet distribution; it's still a limited experiment. 2. They're hoping Hulu -because of its requirement of a computer- won't cannibalize their broadcast TV shows. In terms of their bottom line, Hulu > pirated shows on the Internet, but Hulu < TV. Edit: nikblack explains it more eloquently in this comment: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=486620 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=486620
    - jonursenbach 18y ago
      Then should they prevent me from buying a Mac Mini/Apple TV, hooking it up to my TV, opening up a web browser with Hulu and watching something in full screen?
jrockway 18y ago
Hopefully someday they'll realize that when they cut off people from having legal access to their content, people will go back to their illegal methods. When will old media learn? How is bit-torrenting TV episodes illegal? They are broadcast into my house for free, so why would it matter if I record them, or if Some Guy On The Internet records them for me? (I never watch TV un-timeshifted, so I don't see ads either way.)
- wmf 18y ago
  I'll assume this was a serious question. While recording a show yourself and downloading it both produce the same outcome, copyright law cares about the path that bits take. Even if the TV networks are distributing something for free, it isn't legal for you to redistribute it for free without their permission.
  - whughes 18y ago
    An interesting post I read about this a while back: http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/lawpoli/colour/2004061001.php http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/lawpoli/colour/2004061001.php
- krschultz 18y ago
  Your problem is that you are being rational, and copyright law is anything but. I don't think there has been a definitive ruling on the matter but I think torrenting is illegal because you never own the show, you have a license to view it in one way and viewing it in another violates that license. For example, if I get the show in HD on my package and you don't, me giving you a copy means you have an experience that you would not otherwise have and therefore are violating the copyright.

paulsmith 18y ago

If they would just think of the content as syndication ala RSS, or YouTube embedding, they'd recognize that we Boxee users see the same pre-/post-/middle-roll ads that appear on Hulu.com actual. This is especially frustrating for me because I set up my HTPC with Boxee expressly to have an easy-to-navigate interface for Hulu via my remote control.

abstractbill 18y ago
The old-media guys who made this decision almost certainly don't have a clue what RSS is. I share your viewpoint, but there are (still) many dinosaurs running this industry.
- swlevy 18y ago
  It isn't quite that simple; I work for an "old media" company, and for us, Boxee jumped the gun by ingesting content prior to having the requisite agreement. Since they did not consult our developers, our ads were not implemented correctly, and we weren't getting paid (even though Boxee's users may have been seeing the ads).
  - bestes 18y ago
    Isn't this something you(or they) could fix on your end?
    - peregrine 18y ago
      Hulu probably signed an agreement with say Tivo or Microsoft(360), nintendo, sony, heck even samsung. To do the same thing but have people pay for it and get some royalties. This product only Hulu wasn't making any money with this. Boxee was full of people who would use Hulu without boxee and see the ads but the Hulu brand and ads wouldn't be connected as clearly as they would be online. In a recession things like that can fly but when your trying to make money you gotta work for it.
  - jnoller 18y ago
    Then work with them to forge the deal, instead of yanking your content and causing a frenzy which isn't in your favor. Maybe explain why the ads were not generating revenue, for starters. Just having it yanked begets bad blood. There's a lot of early adopters and people using boxee+hulu, and pulling it means people will simply tune you out.
  - jonursenbach 18y ago
    How is what Boxee was doing any different from the EMBED tag that Hulu gives out?
  - mechanical_fish 18y ago
    Have your employers considered how many ads the Bittorrent users are paying for? Boxee is taking off. Its users are voluntarily watching your ads. And, instead of trying to work with that and ride the wave, your tired media company is emasculating it. Sounds like the kind of brilliant logic that led the music publishers to destroy Napster, only stupider.
  - ja2ke 18y ago
    Progess is slow, and it's hard to get people to change, etc, but Boxee seems extraordinarily dedicated to getting real partners onto its service, and serving as much legal content as they can. I do think that they might be overstepping or at least stepping out of being "professional" by just integrating things like Hulu content, basically "rogue," but it's what they have to do to get a userbase and to get the buzz that they have. But now, they're here, and they want to play. There is a service and a userbase who are all clearly invested in supporting your legal content, sitting here staring content providers in the face. Surely entertainment hubris or ego will get in the way of things actually going smoothly in a situation like this, but its one of those times where I wish everyone would just shut up, play ball, and make money.
  - noahlt 18y ago
    "Since they did not consult our developers, our ads were not implemented correctly, and we weren't getting paid (even though Boxee's users may have been seeing the ads)." Honest question: don't you normally pay for ads, rather than getting paid for them? I must be missing something here.

zhyder 18y ago

Hulu.com does have fewer ads than broadcast TV (altho a DVR can circumvent ads on the latter). If NBC makes less per view on Hulu than it does on TV, this request makes some sense.

wmf 18y ago
No it doesn't, because whether you watch Hulu using Firefox or Boxee the same ads should be shown.
- zhyder 18y ago
  I know. But when you bring up the same show on TV using over-the-air/satellite/cable you see more ads.
  - bjtitus 18y ago
    Then why don't they shut Hulu down?
    - zhyder 18y ago
      1. Hulu is where they're testing the waters of Internet distribution; it's still a limited experiment. 2. They're hoping Hulu -because of its requirement of a computer- won't cannibalize their broadcast TV shows. In terms of their bottom line, Hulu > pirated shows on the Internet, but Hulu < TV. Edit: nikblack explains it more eloquently in this comment: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=486620 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=486620
  - jonursenbach 18y ago
    Then should they prevent me from buying a Mac Mini/Apple TV, hooking it up to my TV, opening up a web browser with Hulu and watching something in full screen?

jrockway 18y ago

Hopefully someday they'll realize that when they cut off people from having legal access to their content, people will go back to their illegal methods. When will old media learn? How is bit-torrenting TV episodes illegal? They are broadcast into my house for free, so why would it matter if I record them, or if Some Guy On The Internet records them for me? (I never watch TV un-timeshifted, so I don't see ads either way.)

wmf 18y ago
I'll assume this was a serious question. While recording a show yourself and downloading it both produce the same outcome, copyright law cares about the path that bits take. Even if the TV networks are distributing something for free, it isn't legal for you to redistribute it for free without their permission.
- whughes 18y ago
  An interesting post I read about this a while back: http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/lawpoli/colour/2004061001.php http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/lawpoli/colour/2004061001.php
krschultz 18y ago
Your problem is that you are being rational, and copyright law is anything but. I don't think there has been a definitive ruling on the matter but I think torrenting is illegal because you never own the show, you have a license to view it in one way and viewing it in another violates that license. For example, if I get the show in HD on my package and you don't, me giving you a copy means you have an experience that you would not otherwise have and therefore are violating the copyright.