4 ms·

I'll happily live in a world where this is the extent of police authority abuse.

tomalbrc 4mo ago
If only.
teraflop 4mo ago
If you tolerate small abuses, and let people get accustomed to abusing their power in small meaningless ways, the abuses will only grow.
- lazide 4mo ago
  I can assure you, pulling over the banana stand is not the road to death camps. The death camps are.
  - zmgsabst 4mo ago
    Roads don’t start at their end. And it didn’t start there in Germany, either banana cars or death camps.
    - lazide 4mo ago
      Eh, most roads start where other roads end or meet. The wheel turns, regardless.
  - deleted 4mo ago
    [deleted]
  - wat10000 4mo ago
    Maybe not death camps, but it is inextricably tied to real abuses. I don't see how you ban "driving while black" stops without also banning these.
    - lazide 4mo ago
      You also can’t ban these without making it impossible to stop 99% of real issues either. A giant banana car is the definition of unusual behavior, after all.
      - mrguyorama 4mo ago
        "Unusual" behavior should not be justification for any police interaction. Society doesn't benefit from policing "Weird".
        lazide 4mo ago
        Society (broadly) disagrees, and even trivial examples would have you agreeing with them if you thought it through. If a cop saw someone hiding in your bushes at 2am - stop and check it out, or nah?
        wat10000 4mo ago
        Society broadly agrees, enough that it's illegal in the US to stop someone just for "unusual behavior." You have to have an actual concrete reason to suspect someone of a crime. Not that police always follow the law on this.
        lazide 4mo ago
        Not really, in the way you are using it. Only in specific edge cases and definitions, which I’m guessing you don’t know. And calling it ‘illegal’ is a stretch in 95% of them. Generally worst case any evidence gathered would just be inadmissible. After all, even if not a legal stop/detention, that doesn’t mean they committed a crime by doing it. But tell me, do you think any of these officers would have struggled to come up with probable cause to detain the driver of a giant banana car on a public roadway? Or any other ‘suspicious’ or ‘weird’ vehicle? Because I can think of at least 3 California vehicle codes off the top of my head that would likely apply, including CVC 26708, 24008.5, and 5201. And I’m not a cop. And all you need is an articulable and reasonable suspicion to detain. Stopping someone to chat (aka they can leave without penalty) is a much lower bar, though I doubt they did that. And you never answered my question.
- overfeed 4mo ago
  > ... the abuses will only grow. SCOTUS made race-based Kavanaugh Stops legal. Stipping a banana on wheels is a much lower bar
kube-system 4mo ago
The problem isn't the severity of the infraction, it's the lack of respect for the rule of law, and an institutionalized acceptance of that practice. The prioritization of a respect for authority over a respect for the rule of law is notoriously problematic in small town america in very real ways.

If only.

If you tolerate small abuses, and let people get accustomed to abusing their power in small meaningless ways, the abuses will only grow.

lazide 4mo ago
I can assure you, pulling over the banana stand is not the road to death camps. The death camps are.
- zmgsabst 4mo ago
  Roads don’t start at their end. And it didn’t start there in Germany, either banana cars or death camps.
  - lazide 4mo ago
    Eh, most roads start where other roads end or meet. The wheel turns, regardless.
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
- wat10000 4mo ago
  Maybe not death camps, but it is inextricably tied to real abuses. I don't see how you ban "driving while black" stops without also banning these.
  - lazide 4mo ago
    You also can’t ban these without making it impossible to stop 99% of real issues either. A giant banana car is the definition of unusual behavior, after all.
    - mrguyorama 4mo ago
      "Unusual" behavior should not be justification for any police interaction. Society doesn't benefit from policing "Weird".
      - lazide 4mo ago
        Society (broadly) disagrees, and even trivial examples would have you agreeing with them if you thought it through. If a cop saw someone hiding in your bushes at 2am - stop and check it out, or nah?
        wat10000 4mo ago
        Society broadly agrees, enough that it's illegal in the US to stop someone just for "unusual behavior." You have to have an actual concrete reason to suspect someone of a crime. Not that police always follow the law on this.
        lazide 4mo ago
        Not really, in the way you are using it. Only in specific edge cases and definitions, which I’m guessing you don’t know. And calling it ‘illegal’ is a stretch in 95% of them. Generally worst case any evidence gathered would just be inadmissible. After all, even if not a legal stop/detention, that doesn’t mean they committed a crime by doing it. But tell me, do you think any of these officers would have struggled to come up with probable cause to detain the driver of a giant banana car on a public roadway? Or any other ‘suspicious’ or ‘weird’ vehicle? Because I can think of at least 3 California vehicle codes off the top of my head that would likely apply, including CVC 26708, 24008.5, and 5201. And I’m not a cop. And all you need is an articulable and reasonable suspicion to detain. Stopping someone to chat (aka they can leave without penalty) is a much lower bar, though I doubt they did that. And you never answered my question.
overfeed 4mo ago
> ... the abuses will only grow. SCOTUS made race-based Kavanaugh Stops legal. Stipping a banana on wheels is a much lower bar

kube-system 4mo ago

The problem isn't the severity of the infraction, it's the lack of respect for the rule of law, and an institutionalized acceptance of that practice. The prioritization of a respect for authority over a respect for the rule of law is notoriously problematic in small town america in very real ways.