4 ms·

Are wolves even a threat? Outside of movies theyre pretty harmless.

hcfman 4mo ago
Oh there no denying that they are a threat to live stock that are not protected. And sometimes even when they, as the sometimes can get over fences. In the Netherlands there are 14 wolf packs and 144 wolves in a geographical small area where the surrounding farms are often full of a lot sheep. But it’s also easy to imagine that if you can become aware of the presents of wolves sufficiently early enough and reliably enough before they attack your animals then you have a chance to prevent an attack. And if you prevent enough attacks it becomes maybe harder than sticking to natural prey. Wolves don't like taking risks. Interacting with humans is definitely risky. Detecting wolves reliably early and responding, either in person if that can be done quick enough, or setting off responses, ideally followed up by a human visit could well result in the wolves avoiding that farm in any case. The extend to which this can work in practice is something that needs to be determine through research and pilots. Wolves are very smart, so if tech is going to be able to help here, then the tech has to be very capable. The start with pilots and research two elements are needed. People with tech, but also people in the affected areas with a willingness to collaborate. The current highly polarized environment is throwing road blocks against such collaboration. The current situation is such that owners are unaware of the presence of wolves at their borders, so there is currently also not a lot of perceived risk associated with attacking live stock. A useful goal is to start to change that. And the people who read hacker news I'm sure that think of many ways to change the status quo. My system is one example. Sadly, a lot time went by without trying these methods. None the less, one should try. I the past I have offered free equipment to people to test who had been publicly expressing concern about the arrival of the wolf but they would not accept it. But maybe that can still change.
- hcfman 4mo ago
  My system has on two occasions alerted my wolves showing an interest in a field of horses instead of just travelling by. Both times I alerted the farmer who went out in his car and then a little while later they dispersed.
  - hcfman 4mo ago
    Only two occasions though out of more than 60. All the other times they were just traveling through. And I also don’t believe those two times they were a threat to the horses, more likely just curious. But I didn’t have the full visibility enough to be sure as there was just one camera. So I called the farmer to be in the safe side. Now I think there are no more wolves there. It’s been weeks since Insaw them. They have either dispersed or killed on the roads.
- gbraad 4mo ago
  So far these packs are monitored, but they contain problem wolves that have been known to attack people. Examples in Utrecht and veluwe, and it takes just a little to learn from those; the issue is that the wolves do not see people as a threat. So far there have been incidents, like bite marks, until they will attack in a group. They should adopt the German method to scare them away proactively
lgcmo 4mo ago
My grandmother would tell me how her mom was terrified of wolves in her small village. It was a true problem back in the day
RetroTechie 4mo ago
> Are wolves even a threat? Outside of movies theyre pretty harmless. Are you kidding? Humans often had a fear of wolves throughout history. And rightfully so. But the reverse is also true. Hence wolves tend to stay away from people so encounters are rare. But where not, human-wolf close encounters can end deadly sometimes. Even for the humans (especially children).
- the_real_cher 4mo ago
  Looks like zero documented death by wolves in the entirety of the 20th century in the contiguous North America.
  - danielvf 4mo ago
    1. Wolves were basically exterminated in the continental US for most of the 20th century 2. There were still deaths from wolf attacks in North America during that time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wolf_attacks_in_North_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wolf_attacks_in_North_...
    - idiotsecant 4mo ago
      What are you talking about? There's tons of wolves in my county. They aren't 'basically exterminated' at all. And there's zero human attacks. Lots and lots of cow attacks though.
      - stephenhuey 4mo ago
        Yellowstone park rangers killed the last wolves there in 1926, and by the middle of the 20th century, the total population in the Lower 48 had been reduced to a few hundred in Minnesota and Michigan. https://www.nps.gov/yell/learn/historyculture/wolf-management.htm https://www.nps.gov/yell/learn/historyculture/wolf-managemen... This map shows how now there are nearly 7,000 in the contiguous states of the USA: https://nywolf.org/learn/u-s-wolf-populations/ https://nywolf.org/learn/u-s-wolf-populations/
      - 4mo ago
yread 4mo ago
Most are not. "Problem wolves" do show up sometimes. In Netherlands we had "Bram" GW3237m. First, he just followed people seemingly unafraid. Then he attacked a jogger (who ran away) and a 6-year old boy (grabbed him by the chest and tried to pull him in the bushes, bystanders hit the wolf with sticks so he ran away). Judge in Utrecht gave an order to shoot the wolf dead, which was done and now it's back to just sheep being bitten. I've heard from my farmer friends that not all sheep declared to have been bitten by wolves have in fact been bitten by wolves. There is some insurance fraud with that. Not sure how widespread
- pvaldes 4mo ago
  Extremely widespread. Suddenly statistics will show that no sheep or cows die anymore by illness, accidents, old age or pregnancy gone bad, after government starts paying for wolf attacks in some area. Every single time, farmers will soon realize that paying for medicines for an old cow is a worse deal than borrowing a mastiff from a friend and being paid. People tried to be paid for the bony rests of a barbecue. (Yep. really). People tried to be paid twice or thrice for the same cow, just moving the corpse around. For some reason wolves always start eating the most yummy parts of the cows first: the plastic identification tags in the ears. In Spain some farmers never ever sold a cow or paid taxes. Their entire activity for decades is: buying foals in a province by 50 euros, moving to another and leaving then alone in isolated places known to have wolves, to cash 150 euros of our taxes by each foal. Rinse and repeat. Ka-ching.

Oh there no denying that they are a threat to live stock that are not protected. And sometimes even when they, as the sometimes can get over fences. In the Netherlands there are 14 wolf packs and 144 wolves in a geographical small area where the surrounding farms are often full of a lot sheep. But it’s also easy to imagine that if you can become aware of the presents of wolves sufficiently early enough and reliably enough before they attack your animals then you have a chance to prevent an attack. And if you prevent enough attacks it becomes maybe harder than sticking to natural prey. Wolves don't like taking risks. Interacting with humans is definitely risky. Detecting wolves reliably early and responding, either in person if that can be done quick enough, or setting off responses, ideally followed up by a human visit could well result in the wolves avoiding that farm in any case. The extend to which this can work in practice is something that needs to be determine through research and pilots. Wolves are very smart, so if tech is going to be able to help here, then the tech has to be very capable. The start with pilots and research two elements are needed. People with tech, but also people in the affected areas with a willingness to collaborate. The current highly polarized environment is throwing road blocks against such collaboration. The current situation is such that owners are unaware of the presence of wolves at their borders, so there is currently also not a lot of perceived risk associated with attacking live stock. A useful goal is to start to change that. And the people who read hacker news I'm sure that think of many ways to change the status quo. My system is one example. Sadly, a lot time went by without trying these methods. None the less, one should try. I the past I have offered free equipment to people to test who had been publicly expressing concern about the arrival of the wolf but they would not accept it. But maybe that can still change.

hcfman 4mo ago
My system has on two occasions alerted my wolves showing an interest in a field of horses instead of just travelling by. Both times I alerted the farmer who went out in his car and then a little while later they dispersed.
- hcfman 4mo ago
  Only two occasions though out of more than 60. All the other times they were just traveling through. And I also don’t believe those two times they were a threat to the horses, more likely just curious. But I didn’t have the full visibility enough to be sure as there was just one camera. So I called the farmer to be in the safe side. Now I think there are no more wolves there. It’s been weeks since Insaw them. They have either dispersed or killed on the roads.
gbraad 4mo ago
So far these packs are monitored, but they contain problem wolves that have been known to attack people. Examples in Utrecht and veluwe, and it takes just a little to learn from those; the issue is that the wolves do not see people as a threat. So far there have been incidents, like bite marks, until they will attack in a group. They should adopt the German method to scare them away proactively

lgcmo 4mo ago

My grandmother would tell me how her mom was terrified of wolves in her small village. It was a true problem back in the day

RetroTechie 4mo ago

> Are wolves even a threat? Outside of movies theyre pretty harmless. Are you kidding? Humans often had a fear of wolves throughout history. And rightfully so. But the reverse is also true. Hence wolves tend to stay away from people so encounters are rare. But where not, human-wolf close encounters can end deadly sometimes. Even for the humans (especially children).

the_real_cher 4mo ago
Looks like zero documented death by wolves in the entirety of the 20th century in the contiguous North America.
- danielvf 4mo ago
  1. Wolves were basically exterminated in the continental US for most of the 20th century 2. There were still deaths from wolf attacks in North America during that time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wolf_attacks_in_North_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wolf_attacks_in_North_...
  - idiotsecant 4mo ago
    What are you talking about? There's tons of wolves in my county. They aren't 'basically exterminated' at all. And there's zero human attacks. Lots and lots of cow attacks though.
    - stephenhuey 4mo ago
      Yellowstone park rangers killed the last wolves there in 1926, and by the middle of the 20th century, the total population in the Lower 48 had been reduced to a few hundred in Minnesota and Michigan. https://www.nps.gov/yell/learn/historyculture/wolf-management.htm https://www.nps.gov/yell/learn/historyculture/wolf-managemen... This map shows how now there are nearly 7,000 in the contiguous states of the USA: https://nywolf.org/learn/u-s-wolf-populations/ https://nywolf.org/learn/u-s-wolf-populations/
    - 4mo ago

yread 4mo ago

Most are not. "Problem wolves" do show up sometimes. In Netherlands we had "Bram" GW3237m. First, he just followed people seemingly unafraid. Then he attacked a jogger (who ran away) and a 6-year old boy (grabbed him by the chest and tried to pull him in the bushes, bystanders hit the wolf with sticks so he ran away). Judge in Utrecht gave an order to shoot the wolf dead, which was done and now it's back to just sheep being bitten. I've heard from my farmer friends that not all sheep declared to have been bitten by wolves have in fact been bitten by wolves. There is some insurance fraud with that. Not sure how widespread

pvaldes 4mo ago
Extremely widespread. Suddenly statistics will show that no sheep or cows die anymore by illness, accidents, old age or pregnancy gone bad, after government starts paying for wolf attacks in some area. Every single time, farmers will soon realize that paying for medicines for an old cow is a worse deal than borrowing a mastiff from a friend and being paid. People tried to be paid for the bony rests of a barbecue. (Yep. really). People tried to be paid twice or thrice for the same cow, just moving the corpse around. For some reason wolves always start eating the most yummy parts of the cows first: the plastic identification tags in the ears. In Spain some farmers never ever sold a cow or paid taxes. Their entire activity for decades is: buying foals in a province by 50 euros, moving to another and leaving then alone in isolated places known to have wolves, to cash 150 euros of our taxes by each foal. Rinse and repeat. Ka-ching.