3 ms·

> They allow instant deposits with credit card This is my biggest takeaway, and I really wonder what payment processor(s) they're using, because the chargeback

> They allow instant deposits with credit card This is my biggest takeaway, and I really wonder what payment processor(s) they're using, because the chargeback and fraud rate in filling 'real money' into an online gambling account using visa or mastercard must be through the roof. Exactly same reason why porn sites use their own specialist payment processors (alluded to in popular fiction in Industry season 4 recently, for instance). The back end of how they're able to get money "instantly" into peoples accounts must be fascinating, in a how the sausages are made kind of way.

flexagoon 4mo ago
> Exactly same reason why porn sites use their own specialist payment processors They're called high-risk payment processors and they usually handle all sorts of "legal but sketchy" sectors like porn, gambling, crypto, legalized drugs/vapes, MLMs, etc. It's not even some shadowy darknet industry, if you just search for "high risk payment processor" there is plenty of them which look very professional and even provide official Shopify integrations and stuff. Interesting that if you go to one of their websites they also handle some pretty normal industries like "furniture" or "travel" just because of the high chargeback rate in them.
fc417fc802 4mo ago
I wonder what the chargeback and fraud rate actually is in practice given they do ID verification. Pretty difficult to claim you didn't make the purchase depending on what they collect.
- fragmede 4mo ago
  because no one's ever had their wallet/purse with their ID in it stolen?
  - brookst 4mo ago
    What percent of ID verifications do you think are from stolen wallets / purses?
    - fragmede 4mo ago
      what percentage of fraud is fraud? I honestly don't know!
    - mothballed 4mo ago
      Once information stolen its easy to produce a digital fake ID with the info thats sold on the dark web and used everywhere. Private KYC collecting merchants rarely have the ability to authenticate the full gamet of valid types of government IDs.
      - lxgr 4mo ago
        Contrary to incredibly popular belief (at least in the US), asking for a photo of somebody's ID is actually not a sane way to do KYC. The point of an identity document is to check its security elements in person and compare the photo to the person standing in front of you. (Part of this can be replicated by doing a live video call, but that window is quickly closing due to deepfakes.) Yet countless times in the past years, US and a few other companies have asked me to "identify myself" by sending them a scan of my goverment ID via chat/email/web form attachment, with absolutely no liveness check. This is just insane.
- lxgr 4mo ago
  Having verified somebody's government ID doesn't actually factor into chargeback decisions and outcomes, not least because many forms of online KYC practiced today in the US are pretty laughable from a security point of view.
  - walrus01 4mo ago
    True, but for merchants that ship high fraud risk physical merchandise, it's becoming increasingly common to ask for a copy of a drivers license or other government issued photo ID (from a recognized US state or Canadian province, in the North American market) before a product gets shipped. I've seen this from a number of persons adjacent to a completely different forum who frequently buy things online like rifle scopes, spotting scopes, rangefinders, camera lenses, etc. Getting a copy of the ID, only shipping to card billing address, using a signature on delivery required shipping option considerably cuts down on the number of fraudulent orders.
jappgar 4mo ago
I'm assuming they pay high percentages to processors on deposits to cover the losses. Then they recoup that (and more) in withdrawal fees
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
- cj 4mo ago
  Plus a 2% fee charged on deposit.

flexagoon 4mo ago

> Exactly same reason why porn sites use their own specialist payment processors They're called high-risk payment processors and they usually handle all sorts of "legal but sketchy" sectors like porn, gambling, crypto, legalized drugs/vapes, MLMs, etc. It's not even some shadowy darknet industry, if you just search for "high risk payment processor" there is plenty of them which look very professional and even provide official Shopify integrations and stuff. Interesting that if you go to one of their websites they also handle some pretty normal industries like "furniture" or "travel" just because of the high chargeback rate in them.

fc417fc802 4mo ago

I wonder what the chargeback and fraud rate actually is in practice given they do ID verification. Pretty difficult to claim you didn't make the purchase depending on what they collect.

fragmede 4mo ago
because no one's ever had their wallet/purse with their ID in it stolen?
- brookst 4mo ago
  What percent of ID verifications do you think are from stolen wallets / purses?
  - fragmede 4mo ago
    what percentage of fraud is fraud? I honestly don't know!
  - mothballed 4mo ago
    Once information stolen its easy to produce a digital fake ID with the info thats sold on the dark web and used everywhere. Private KYC collecting merchants rarely have the ability to authenticate the full gamet of valid types of government IDs.
    - lxgr 4mo ago
      Contrary to incredibly popular belief (at least in the US), asking for a photo of somebody's ID is actually not a sane way to do KYC. The point of an identity document is to check its security elements in person and compare the photo to the person standing in front of you. (Part of this can be replicated by doing a live video call, but that window is quickly closing due to deepfakes.) Yet countless times in the past years, US and a few other companies have asked me to "identify myself" by sending them a scan of my goverment ID via chat/email/web form attachment, with absolutely no liveness check. This is just insane.
lxgr 4mo ago
Having verified somebody's government ID doesn't actually factor into chargeback decisions and outcomes, not least because many forms of online KYC practiced today in the US are pretty laughable from a security point of view.
- walrus01 4mo ago
  True, but for merchants that ship high fraud risk physical merchandise, it's becoming increasingly common to ask for a copy of a drivers license or other government issued photo ID (from a recognized US state or Canadian province, in the North American market) before a product gets shipped. I've seen this from a number of persons adjacent to a completely different forum who frequently buy things online like rifle scopes, spotting scopes, rangefinders, camera lenses, etc. Getting a copy of the ID, only shipping to card billing address, using a signature on delivery required shipping option considerably cuts down on the number of fraudulent orders.

jappgar 4mo ago

I'm assuming they pay high percentages to processors on deposits to cover the losses. Then they recoup that (and more) in withdrawal fees

deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]
cj 4mo ago
Plus a 2% fee charged on deposit.