4 ms·

This shouldn't be hard to understand. Don't talk to the police, without your attorney present, under any circumstances whatsoever. Dating the police is just su

This shouldn't be hard to understand. Don't talk to the police, without your attorney present, under any circumstances whatsoever. Dating the police is just such an astoundingly egregious violation of this principle that I can only wonder what, if anything, those people are thinking. Anyway, the key takeaway seems to don't date anyone who dates the police. Firstly, because it directly puts your own safety at risk, as this article exemplifies. Secondly, because it demonstrates terrible judgment; it seems reasonable to assume they are likely to make other terrible decisions in the future.

ultrarunner 3mo ago
> Dating the police is just such an astoundingly egregious violation of this principle There are still quite a few people who think the police are the friendly government-provided customer service agents of life, although I've watched this viewpoint decline markedly over the last twenty years at least. Locally, a woman went on a hiking date with a Phoenix cop and wound up dead [0]. Notably, the woman was from New England, while the cop was local and absolutely should have known better how dangerous conditions would be. The police, of course, investigated themselves and found they did nothing wrong. [0] https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/hiker-recalls-seeing-woman-who-died-hiking-with-off-duty-phoenix-officer-on-camelback-mountain https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/hiker-recalls-seeing-woman...
- s1artibartfast 3mo ago
  [flagged]
  - wahnfrieden 3mo ago
    No, it is just one HNer's random comment
    - s1artibartfast 3mo ago
      Well yeah, that is the evidence one random thinks is compelling. It gives insight into how some people think, and like I said I feel third-party embarrassment for them. A cop could literally be a Jeffrey Dahmer copycat, and it wouldnt be generalizable. In this specific case there is zero evidence of criminal wrongdoing
      - wahnfrieden 3mo ago
        Have you tried to find systemic patterns of wrongdoings?
        s1artibartfast 3mo ago
        I dont think systemic patterns are sufficient to prove universal truths? Yes, some cops beat their wives, some abuse their power, some murder people. None of that by itself means I should judge a given cop, let all of them, or not talk to them. Replace "cop" with "black" or "white" and you see how absurd this binary thinking is. The actual world operates on scales of grey. There are a million cops in the USA. Some are good and some are bad. Dont talk to cops if you are holding drugs. Do talk to cops if someone is breaking into your house or sexually abusing your child.
      - ultrarunner 3mo ago
        Well, I mean, Phoenix PD was under federal investigation for years. Maricopa was found to be violating civil rights for years, Sheriff Arpaio was famous on HN for years for using police against his political adversaries. And on and on and on. I realize that when I don't write an essay there will be latitude for interpretation (which I generally find interesting), but there will always be one HN commenter who takes a pejorative reductionist approach despite the site guidelines. So no, obviously, woman goes on date with a cop and ends up dead isn't evidence of all cops being of a particular demeanor, any more than a police chief misusing a camera is evidence of cameras being bad for freedom. But Flock cameras are bad for freedom, having a huge potential for misuse. And cops have a huge propensity for domestic violence and dangerous behavior towards their partners. Ample evidence exists if you care to look.
- warumdarum 3mo ago
  [flagged]
- kakacik 3mo ago
  A female high on meth gets disoriented and dies from heat exposure in the mountains. As per article she willingly separated from the guy whom she sent to the top of the peak "to continue to get pic for social media". He probably should have know better and just go down with her and call it a day, or not getting high on meth in dangerous environment in the first place but thats about it. Unless you have a better article on that, that really ain't evidence of anything.
  - close04 3mo ago
    A trained police officer leaves his obviously high (police can always tell even on first contact and from far away, right?) and exhausted hiking partner to return alone, with no water, in blazing heat, on an unfamiliar trail, to eventually die alone. Peak police.
  - Hikikomori 3mo ago
    Meth and amphetamine are very different drugs, but a bootlicker wouldn't know the difference. She could also have been spiked and left to die by the cop, can't really know without a proper investigation, which the police never subject themselves to.
    - mapotofu 3mo ago
      Her source of trust was instagram. The cop’s instagram led her to travel to Arizona and be with him. She was convinced by his instagram that she agreed to do all of this. That’s really dumb and it’s what you get playing stupid games with strangers on the internet.
      - Hikikomori 3mo ago
        What is this nonsense. Instagram isn't an entity like that, she talked to a cop over a messaging service.
      - sixothree 3mo ago
        Says the person using social media.
- mlrtime 3mo ago
  IDK, In my town that is what they are, they come when called, they are respectful, they live in the town they service. I only see problems with police [generally speaking] in two scenarios. 1) Very large cities like NYC where police don't [cannot afford] to live in the area they work in. 2) Very small citie where the mayor, judge and sherrif are all related.
  - mock-possum 3mo ago
    That sounds great for you, but the point is: what if they were not inclined to do those things? What if they didn’t come when called? What if they weren’t respectful? What if they weren’t a part of your community? What recourse do you have against cops?
    - mlrtime 3mo ago
      It's great for me because I choose where I live. If they don't come I have a gun.
goda90 3mo ago
Best hope you don't catch the eye of an officer even. Things can go poorly without a relationship, or even without a direct rejection.
tptacek 3mo ago
This is an extremely online belief. Oak Park, IL, the inner-ring suburb of Chicago where I live, is almost certainly one of the 10 most progressive and left-leaning municipalities in the country. Oak Parkers (not me) have the opposite concern: we're below our threshold number of sworn officers, and desperate to add more. The median Oak Parker has very positive views of the police (and also all the standard progressive concerns about abuses.) Lots of political beliefs are like this! There are plenty of things people believe very strongly, and get near universal reinforcement on in their communities, that don't survive contact with actual living grass. The median American has an extraordinarily high opinion of Amazon, for instance, something you'd never know unless you sought out polling (or, you know, took a walk down a residential block and looked at the stoops.)
- duld 3mo ago
  To clarify, you're stating that "Don't talk to the police" is an "extremely online belief"? Or were you referencing the dating portion of the comment?
  - tptacek 3mo ago
    Correct: "never talk to the police" is a very online belief. I watch people talk to police all the time. People go out of their way to do it. I don't even know what to do with the "never date police officers" thing. Most police officers are married. It's a shift-work job, so they have high divorce rates, but they just remarry.
    - fzeroracer 3mo ago
      Saying never talk to the police is an 'online belief' is frankly baffling. There are multiple examples of prominent law professors bringing in ex-police professionals who all say the exact same thing: never talk to the police. If you spend five minutes around a lawyer they will say the same thing. If you ever end up finding yourself in legal turmoil it is the very first thing a lawyer will directly advise you to do. People being stupid I don't think suddenly makes this advice terminally online. I was hearing it, in person, when I was in college over a decade ago.
kstenerud 3mo ago
Wow. I've heard some pretty egregious victim blaming before, but this really takes the cake.
qmr 3mo ago
If I pivot to law enforcement does my wife have to stop talking to me? She's a permanent resident and has already been given the do not talk to the police speech and role play practice from me.
lukan 3mo ago
"Don't talk to the police, without your attorney present, under any circumstances whatsoever." Oh but I did. Multiple times, without a lawyer ever, how shocking: "Hey, my bicycle was stolen, I need to file it so I get insurance payout" "Hey, this demonstration and the roadblock of yours for guarding it, will it be around for much longer?" "Hey, nice weather, isn't it?" (Misdirecting small talk, while they were searching for drugs on the road to a festival, but then didn't really check me) "Yes I know I have to have a light with a bicycle, but the battery went out and it was a emergency now to go anyway" (Did not had to pay a fine) And countless other examples like this. Also more serious ones. "Yes, it was those neonazis who beat up my friend" So .. I never cared much for this online advice, but then again I also don't live in the US. Maybe there they shoot and arrest anyone approaching them on general principle? Well in my world, that was actually shaped a lot by anarchistic anti establishment people, I found that one can talk to cops as inhuman cops, then they will act like one, or you talk to them as humans and might be surprised that they reply as humans. That doesn't mean, that there ain't lots of assholes on a power trip in uniforms, but the "never talk to them advice" assumes they all are. And this is just wrong and act as a self fullfilling prophecy.
- ceejayoz 3mo ago
  > I also don't live in the US “Don’t talk to the cops” is not global advice. In some countries it harms your defense in court. In others it gets you beaten. Most times you hear it it’s an American talking to Americans.
  - lukan 3mo ago
    "some countries it harms your defense in court. " In all countries it harms your defence if you confess something wrong. But itnis not a general rule that it always hurts.
    - ceejayoz 3mo ago
      I'm referring to things like the UK's right to remain silent, where the Miranda-style warning is: > You do not have to say anything. But it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence. Basically, your alibi is considered much less credible if your first mention of it is at trial.

ultrarunner 3mo ago

> Dating the police is just such an astoundingly egregious violation of this principle There are still quite a few people who think the police are the friendly government-provided customer service agents of life, although I've watched this viewpoint decline markedly over the last twenty years at least. Locally, a woman went on a hiking date with a Phoenix cop and wound up dead [0]. Notably, the woman was from New England, while the cop was local and absolutely should have known better how dangerous conditions would be. The police, of course, investigated themselves and found they did nothing wrong. [0] https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/hiker-recalls-seeing-woman-who-died-hiking-with-off-duty-phoenix-officer-on-camelback-mountain https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/hiker-recalls-seeing-woman...

s1artibartfast 3mo ago
[flagged]
- wahnfrieden 3mo ago
  No, it is just one HNer's random comment
  - s1artibartfast 3mo ago
    Well yeah, that is the evidence one random thinks is compelling. It gives insight into how some people think, and like I said I feel third-party embarrassment for them. A cop could literally be a Jeffrey Dahmer copycat, and it wouldnt be generalizable. In this specific case there is zero evidence of criminal wrongdoing
    - wahnfrieden 3mo ago
      Have you tried to find systemic patterns of wrongdoings?
      - s1artibartfast 3mo ago
        I dont think systemic patterns are sufficient to prove universal truths? Yes, some cops beat their wives, some abuse their power, some murder people. None of that by itself means I should judge a given cop, let all of them, or not talk to them. Replace "cop" with "black" or "white" and you see how absurd this binary thinking is. The actual world operates on scales of grey. There are a million cops in the USA. Some are good and some are bad. Dont talk to cops if you are holding drugs. Do talk to cops if someone is breaking into your house or sexually abusing your child.
    - ultrarunner 3mo ago
      Well, I mean, Phoenix PD was under federal investigation for years. Maricopa was found to be violating civil rights for years, Sheriff Arpaio was famous on HN for years for using police against his political adversaries. And on and on and on. I realize that when I don't write an essay there will be latitude for interpretation (which I generally find interesting), but there will always be one HN commenter who takes a pejorative reductionist approach despite the site guidelines. So no, obviously, woman goes on date with a cop and ends up dead isn't evidence of all cops being of a particular demeanor, any more than a police chief misusing a camera is evidence of cameras being bad for freedom. But Flock cameras are bad for freedom, having a huge potential for misuse. And cops have a huge propensity for domestic violence and dangerous behavior towards their partners. Ample evidence exists if you care to look.
warumdarum 3mo ago
[flagged]
kakacik 3mo ago
A female high on meth gets disoriented and dies from heat exposure in the mountains. As per article she willingly separated from the guy whom she sent to the top of the peak "to continue to get pic for social media". He probably should have know better and just go down with her and call it a day, or not getting high on meth in dangerous environment in the first place but thats about it. Unless you have a better article on that, that really ain't evidence of anything.
- close04 3mo ago
  A trained police officer leaves his obviously high (police can always tell even on first contact and from far away, right?) and exhausted hiking partner to return alone, with no water, in blazing heat, on an unfamiliar trail, to eventually die alone. Peak police.
- Hikikomori 3mo ago
  Meth and amphetamine are very different drugs, but a bootlicker wouldn't know the difference. She could also have been spiked and left to die by the cop, can't really know without a proper investigation, which the police never subject themselves to.
  - mapotofu 3mo ago
    Her source of trust was instagram. The cop’s instagram led her to travel to Arizona and be with him. She was convinced by his instagram that she agreed to do all of this. That’s really dumb and it’s what you get playing stupid games with strangers on the internet.
    - Hikikomori 3mo ago
      What is this nonsense. Instagram isn't an entity like that, she talked to a cop over a messaging service.
    - sixothree 3mo ago
      Says the person using social media.
mlrtime 3mo ago
IDK, In my town that is what they are, they come when called, they are respectful, they live in the town they service. I only see problems with police [generally speaking] in two scenarios. 1) Very large cities like NYC where police don't [cannot afford] to live in the area they work in. 2) Very small citie where the mayor, judge and sherrif are all related.
- mock-possum 3mo ago
  That sounds great for you, but the point is: what if they were not inclined to do those things? What if they didn’t come when called? What if they weren’t respectful? What if they weren’t a part of your community? What recourse do you have against cops?
  - mlrtime 3mo ago
    It's great for me because I choose where I live. If they don't come I have a gun.

goda90 3mo ago

Best hope you don't catch the eye of an officer even. Things can go poorly without a relationship, or even without a direct rejection.

tptacek 3mo ago

This is an extremely online belief. Oak Park, IL, the inner-ring suburb of Chicago where I live, is almost certainly one of the 10 most progressive and left-leaning municipalities in the country. Oak Parkers (not me) have the opposite concern: we're below our threshold number of sworn officers, and desperate to add more. The median Oak Parker has very positive views of the police (and also all the standard progressive concerns about abuses.) Lots of political beliefs are like this! There are plenty of things people believe very strongly, and get near universal reinforcement on in their communities, that don't survive contact with actual living grass. The median American has an extraordinarily high opinion of Amazon, for instance, something you'd never know unless you sought out polling (or, you know, took a walk down a residential block and looked at the stoops.)

duld 3mo ago
To clarify, you're stating that "Don't talk to the police" is an "extremely online belief"? Or were you referencing the dating portion of the comment?
- tptacek 3mo ago
  Correct: "never talk to the police" is a very online belief. I watch people talk to police all the time. People go out of their way to do it. I don't even know what to do with the "never date police officers" thing. Most police officers are married. It's a shift-work job, so they have high divorce rates, but they just remarry.
  - fzeroracer 3mo ago
    Saying never talk to the police is an 'online belief' is frankly baffling. There are multiple examples of prominent law professors bringing in ex-police professionals who all say the exact same thing: never talk to the police. If you spend five minutes around a lawyer they will say the same thing. If you ever end up finding yourself in legal turmoil it is the very first thing a lawyer will directly advise you to do. People being stupid I don't think suddenly makes this advice terminally online. I was hearing it, in person, when I was in college over a decade ago.

kstenerud 3mo ago

Wow. I've heard some pretty egregious victim blaming before, but this really takes the cake.

qmr 3mo ago

If I pivot to law enforcement does my wife have to stop talking to me? She's a permanent resident and has already been given the do not talk to the police speech and role play practice from me.

lukan 3mo ago

"Don't talk to the police, without your attorney present, under any circumstances whatsoever." Oh but I did. Multiple times, without a lawyer ever, how shocking: "Hey, my bicycle was stolen, I need to file it so I get insurance payout" "Hey, this demonstration and the roadblock of yours for guarding it, will it be around for much longer?" "Hey, nice weather, isn't it?" (Misdirecting small talk, while they were searching for drugs on the road to a festival, but then didn't really check me) "Yes I know I have to have a light with a bicycle, but the battery went out and it was a emergency now to go anyway" (Did not had to pay a fine) And countless other examples like this. Also more serious ones. "Yes, it was those neonazis who beat up my friend" So .. I never cared much for this online advice, but then again I also don't live in the US. Maybe there they shoot and arrest anyone approaching them on general principle? Well in my world, that was actually shaped a lot by anarchistic anti establishment people, I found that one can talk to cops as inhuman cops, then they will act like one, or you talk to them as humans and might be surprised that they reply as humans. That doesn't mean, that there ain't lots of assholes on a power trip in uniforms, but the "never talk to them advice" assumes they all are. And this is just wrong and act as a self fullfilling prophecy.

ceejayoz 3mo ago
> I also don't live in the US “Don’t talk to the cops” is not global advice. In some countries it harms your defense in court. In others it gets you beaten. Most times you hear it it’s an American talking to Americans.
- lukan 3mo ago
  "some countries it harms your defense in court. " In all countries it harms your defence if you confess something wrong. But itnis not a general rule that it always hurts.
  - ceejayoz 3mo ago
    I'm referring to things like the UK's right to remain silent, where the Miranda-style warning is: > You do not have to say anything. But it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence. Basically, your alibi is considered much less credible if your first mention of it is at trial.