4 ms·

It was very surprising for me when I visited the US to see just how much space was wasted writing everything out on every sign and sometimes in giant words on t

It was very surprising for me when I visited the US to see just how much space was wasted writing everything out on every sign and sometimes in giant words on the road. It did also make me a bit worried about the expected level of driver education...

xp84 4mo ago
To me it's odd to imply people must be stupid because they're expected to read a few simple words such as "Left lane must turn left" rather than to memorize a bunch of symbols. American signs very frequently combine both styles - for instance, you see the above words next to a sign with arrows for whatever lanes, wordlessly illustrating the turn types permitted. If someone is a new driver, who hasn't seen the symbolic signs enough, the word signs are a good fallback. The goal is to maximize accessibility.
- streetfighter64 4mo ago
  The system of signs used is an independent question from the level of driver education (which probably is generally lower in the USA than in most European countries though), which also is another question from whether people "are stupid". The obvious benefit of the European style is that you don't need to speak the language in order to understand the signs, something that is clearly less important given the relative homogeneity of language in the USA. But at least to me, the European road signs are also more quick to read. For example, the "only right turns" and "speed limit 60" are exactly the same shape and color in the USA, while in Europe there is more of a logical system (which also means you don't "memorize a bunch of symbols", you learn the "language" of the signs), such as blue disc means "mandatory", red circle means "prohibited", red triangle means "warning", etc.
  - Symbiote 4mo ago
    The European signs also fare better in snow, very heavy rain or if they're really dirty, since the shape (and maybe some colour) is still visible.
- Symbiote 4mo ago
  People have seen the symbols since childhood, and as far as I know in every European country it's necessary to pass the exam on knowing what they mean before starting practical driving lessons.
  - simonask 4mo ago
    Driving in Europe would be completely impossible without them. I have no idea what the Greek word for "no parking or stopping between 09 and 15" is, or the Croatian word for "left".
    - xp84 4mo ago
      I agree - to me, that is the main practical reason Europe is a special case well-suited to symbolic signs. The US doesn't have nearly that issue, since we have tons of symbolic signs, and few languages, which share a ton of close cognates anyway. For instance, most Mexicans I've heard will use the verb "parquear" or "aparcar" to mean "to park" rather than "estacionar" - so as you might expect, they have zero trouble decoding a sign saying "NO PARKING 9AM - 6PM" which is one of the most complicated text-only signs you usually see.
      - callmeal 4mo ago
        And then there's this one which always manages to horrify me: https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhyMiSEFyCg6O7bYvOfY4mVB7OjU2YdpnK2u_mVzidTbO423SDL3io41mfOhhEvsmW80uY7jUxVOBboGmbNyPCDasG9VhoXnyMiHu02fN-5VQFH2ilVUT3VLzCgJu-fcZ7wzkaC7Q/s1600/toi95-fay-1976.jpg https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh...
- lexicality 4mo ago
  I didn't say they were stupid, I said I was concerned about their level of education > If someone is a new driver, who hasn't seen the symbolic signs enough, the word signs are a good fallback. The goal is to maximize accessibility. That's the thing I'm concerned about! In Europe you're not allowed onto the road unless you have already proven that you have memorised all the symbols and can identify them on demand. You don't need to maximise accessibility because the required level of education is higher.
mock-possum 4mo ago
You have to pass a written test to get your drivers license, so yes, you are indeed expected to be able to read.
callmeal 4mo ago
>It did also make me a bit worried about the expected level of driver education... Not just driver, but of the general population. A few decades ago, the general reading level was at the 6th grade (thanks to the policies of Ronald Regan) and republicans think that is too high and have been working intensely to lower it. Won't be surprised if it's dropped given the "golden" opportunity of covid. I know it's only been a few years (centuries for most Americans) since Betsy DeVos was secretary of education. Remember that era?

xp84 4mo ago

To me it's odd to imply people must be stupid because they're expected to read a few simple words such as "Left lane must turn left" rather than to memorize a bunch of symbols. American signs very frequently combine both styles - for instance, you see the above words next to a sign with arrows for whatever lanes, wordlessly illustrating the turn types permitted. If someone is a new driver, who hasn't seen the symbolic signs enough, the word signs are a good fallback. The goal is to maximize accessibility.

streetfighter64 4mo ago
The system of signs used is an independent question from the level of driver education (which probably is generally lower in the USA than in most European countries though), which also is another question from whether people "are stupid". The obvious benefit of the European style is that you don't need to speak the language in order to understand the signs, something that is clearly less important given the relative homogeneity of language in the USA. But at least to me, the European road signs are also more quick to read. For example, the "only right turns" and "speed limit 60" are exactly the same shape and color in the USA, while in Europe there is more of a logical system (which also means you don't "memorize a bunch of symbols", you learn the "language" of the signs), such as blue disc means "mandatory", red circle means "prohibited", red triangle means "warning", etc.
- Symbiote 4mo ago
  The European signs also fare better in snow, very heavy rain or if they're really dirty, since the shape (and maybe some colour) is still visible.
Symbiote 4mo ago
People have seen the symbols since childhood, and as far as I know in every European country it's necessary to pass the exam on knowing what they mean before starting practical driving lessons.
- simonask 4mo ago
  Driving in Europe would be completely impossible without them. I have no idea what the Greek word for "no parking or stopping between 09 and 15" is, or the Croatian word for "left".
  - xp84 4mo ago
    I agree - to me, that is the main practical reason Europe is a special case well-suited to symbolic signs. The US doesn't have nearly that issue, since we have tons of symbolic signs, and few languages, which share a ton of close cognates anyway. For instance, most Mexicans I've heard will use the verb "parquear" or "aparcar" to mean "to park" rather than "estacionar" - so as you might expect, they have zero trouble decoding a sign saying "NO PARKING 9AM - 6PM" which is one of the most complicated text-only signs you usually see.
    - callmeal 4mo ago
      And then there's this one which always manages to horrify me: https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhyMiSEFyCg6O7bYvOfY4mVB7OjU2YdpnK2u_mVzidTbO423SDL3io41mfOhhEvsmW80uY7jUxVOBboGmbNyPCDasG9VhoXnyMiHu02fN-5VQFH2ilVUT3VLzCgJu-fcZ7wzkaC7Q/s1600/toi95-fay-1976.jpg https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh...
lexicality 4mo ago
I didn't say they were stupid, I said I was concerned about their level of education > If someone is a new driver, who hasn't seen the symbolic signs enough, the word signs are a good fallback. The goal is to maximize accessibility. That's the thing I'm concerned about! In Europe you're not allowed onto the road unless you have already proven that you have memorised all the symbols and can identify them on demand. You don't need to maximise accessibility because the required level of education is higher.

mock-possum 4mo ago

You have to pass a written test to get your drivers license, so yes, you are indeed expected to be able to read.

callmeal 4mo ago

>It did also make me a bit worried about the expected level of driver education... Not just driver, but of the general population. A few decades ago, the general reading level was at the 6th grade (thanks to the policies of Ronald Regan) and republicans think that is too high and have been working intensely to lower it. Won't be surprised if it's dropped given the "golden" opportunity of covid. I know it's only been a few years (centuries for most Americans) since Betsy DeVos was secretary of education. Remember that era?