4 ms·

> In the US, a range of 77 miles is a complete non starter. You'd have to charge it every single day. If not multiple times a day in some peoples cases. It's t

> In the US, a range of 77 miles is a complete non starter. You'd have to charge it every single day. If not multiple times a day in some peoples cases. It's true that some people drive more than 77 miles per day. But a pretty big chunk of people never do, except road trips/vacations. It could easily be worth it to buy a cheap EV for everyday use and then rent a vehicle for long trips.

degenerate 4mo ago
exactly - the rejection of short range EVs was when they cost as much as a normal car if the short range EV is now much cheaper, people will adapt to the restriction because it's an affordable option
- SoftTalker 4mo ago
  Would have to be very affordable. Like well under $10K. Otherwise I'll just buy a used ICE vehicle and have a lot more flexibility in how I use it.
  - jbm 4mo ago
    Even Cargo Bicycles cost more than $10k. I think a 6 seater people mover is worth far more than those. I'd buy a 6 seater with this range but not with the speed limitations (I think it is like 50-60 kph which is a non starter)
    - BenjiWiebe 4mo ago
      You can buy used ICE cars for $10k easy. Like really really easy. Apologies if I missed your point.
- apparent 4mo ago
  Yep, you can pick up used Leafs for super cheap (under $10k, sometimes substantially) and if they fit your use case, they're an amazing deal. Mostly helpful as a second car for a family, or as a city car for someone who never plans to road trip in it.
floxy 4mo ago
Or you own more than vehicle. Plenty of families own multiple vehicles, and they don't all need to have tons of range.
- dsr_ 4mo ago
  At $8500, I could justify having a 77 mile range electric car with a top speed of 30ish mph. That would take care of every in-town trip, but I couldn't do a full commute to work with it because the most sensible way of doing that involves a highway. If it could manage 50mph for 15 minutes, it could go on the highway and I could recharge at or near the office. The cheapest EV currently available in the US is the Chevy Bolt, at $29000, about three times the price. A Bolt has four times the range, but still not quite enough to go one way on my most frequent "long drive".
  - apparent 4mo ago
    > The cheapest EV currently available in the US is the Chevy Bolt, at $29000, about three times the price. You can also get used EVs/PHEVs. We got a PHEV with 20 miles of EV range for $14k, and you can get used Leafs for under $10k.
  - floxy 4mo ago
    >but still not quite enough to go one way on my most frequent "long drive" ...without a charging stop.
  - rsynnott 4mo ago
    > The cheapest EV currently available in the US is the Chevy Bolt, at $29000 The interesting thing is that this appears to be largely because the manufacturers, rightly or wrongly, do not think that the US market _wants_ cheaper EVs. The id.Polo (about 20k with incentives in most countries) won't launch in the US, for instance, even though the id.4 did.
- jjav 4mo ago
  > Or you own more than vehicle. Plenty of families own multiple vehicles, and they don't all need to have tons of range. I wish there still were small and very cheap EVs to fill this niche. We had the Fiat 500e (somewhat infamous) $82 lease as an extra car because for $0 down and $82/month, why not. Range was small but it was perfect for around town, and had other cars for other things. Anytime I was driving within town I'd just take the Fiat.
deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]
gwbas1c 4mo ago
(2014 Leaf leaseholder here) At the time we were a 2-car household and used the gas car for longer trips. That being said, there were a few times we had to scramble: Once, when it was very cold my wife and I both needed to drive a long distance. I took the Leaf because I had access to a charger. On our last year of the lease we ended up having to move 90 miles away. When we bought the Leaf, we never planned on driving that far. Due to circumstances, I had to make multiple 90-mile trips in the Leaf. --- Case in point: I now only recommend that class of Leaf to people who need a 3rd car for a teenager and no intention of moving.
- apparent 4mo ago
  We considered getting a used Leaf but my wife had too much range anxiety, even for vehicles with 70 miles of range. I plotted out on a map how many trips she would have to take in a day (to work, to doctor, to pick up kid, to dentist, to store, etc.) in order to come even close to 70 miles. Of course, she never goes that far around town (only when visiting relatives, when I typically drive and we take a PHEV). But the RA was too great, so we got another PHEV. It has been useful at times to be able to both go 50+ miles in a day without any concern, but it's literally a handful of times over the years.
  - gwbas1c 4mo ago
    > (only when visiting relatives, when I typically drive and we take a PHEV). But the RA was too great, so we got another PHEV. It has been useful at times to be able to both go 50+ miles in a day without any concern After the Leaf, we ended up with the Chrysler Pacifica PHEV and a Model 3. The PHEV had so many problems that I'll never recommend them, and dumped it early at a loss and went all-electric. (Both cars). We will never go back to gas. IMO, the main thing EVs need in the US is a good publicity campaign, more chargers, and better legislation of chargers. The technology is now "good enough" if you have access to a charger where you park overnight, and "almost there" if you can't charge overnight. (IE, if you rely on street parking stick with gas.)
    - apparent 4mo ago
Ekaros 4mo ago
It is weird point to be in. Almost a daily use of that range or significant part of it. As with less than daily use and short distances fuel is lot less critical. I am use case of going to shops a few times a week. Savings on fuel is not big thing as there isn't much used. And then when I actually need to travel longer distances the range is much more important. So EV would need to be very cheap to start making sense overall.

degenerate 4mo ago

exactly - the rejection of short range EVs was when they cost as much as a normal car if the short range EV is now much cheaper, people will adapt to the restriction because it's an affordable option

SoftTalker 4mo ago
Would have to be very affordable. Like well under $10K. Otherwise I'll just buy a used ICE vehicle and have a lot more flexibility in how I use it.
- jbm 4mo ago
  Even Cargo Bicycles cost more than $10k. I think a 6 seater people mover is worth far more than those. I'd buy a 6 seater with this range but not with the speed limitations (I think it is like 50-60 kph which is a non starter)
  - BenjiWiebe 4mo ago
    You can buy used ICE cars for $10k easy. Like really really easy. Apologies if I missed your point.
apparent 4mo ago
Yep, you can pick up used Leafs for super cheap (under $10k, sometimes substantially) and if they fit your use case, they're an amazing deal. Mostly helpful as a second car for a family, or as a city car for someone who never plans to road trip in it.

floxy 4mo ago

Or you own more than vehicle. Plenty of families own multiple vehicles, and they don't all need to have tons of range.

dsr_ 4mo ago
At $8500, I could justify having a 77 mile range electric car with a top speed of 30ish mph. That would take care of every in-town trip, but I couldn't do a full commute to work with it because the most sensible way of doing that involves a highway. If it could manage 50mph for 15 minutes, it could go on the highway and I could recharge at or near the office. The cheapest EV currently available in the US is the Chevy Bolt, at $29000, about three times the price. A Bolt has four times the range, but still not quite enough to go one way on my most frequent "long drive".
- apparent 4mo ago
  > The cheapest EV currently available in the US is the Chevy Bolt, at $29000, about three times the price. You can also get used EVs/PHEVs. We got a PHEV with 20 miles of EV range for $14k, and you can get used Leafs for under $10k.
- floxy 4mo ago
  >but still not quite enough to go one way on my most frequent "long drive" ...without a charging stop.
- rsynnott 4mo ago
  > The cheapest EV currently available in the US is the Chevy Bolt, at $29000 The interesting thing is that this appears to be largely because the manufacturers, rightly or wrongly, do not think that the US market _wants_ cheaper EVs. The id.Polo (about 20k with incentives in most countries) won't launch in the US, for instance, even though the id.4 did.
jjav 4mo ago
> Or you own more than vehicle. Plenty of families own multiple vehicles, and they don't all need to have tons of range. I wish there still were small and very cheap EVs to fill this niche. We had the Fiat 500e (somewhat infamous) $82 lease as an extra car because for $0 down and $82/month, why not. Range was small but it was perfect for around town, and had other cars for other things. Anytime I was driving within town I'd just take the Fiat.

deleted 4mo ago

[deleted]

gwbas1c 4mo ago

(2014 Leaf leaseholder here) At the time we were a 2-car household and used the gas car for longer trips. That being said, there were a few times we had to scramble: Once, when it was very cold my wife and I both needed to drive a long distance. I took the Leaf because I had access to a charger. On our last year of the lease we ended up having to move 90 miles away. When we bought the Leaf, we never planned on driving that far. Due to circumstances, I had to make multiple 90-mile trips in the Leaf. --- Case in point: I now only recommend that class of Leaf to people who need a 3rd car for a teenager and no intention of moving.

apparent 4mo ago
We considered getting a used Leaf but my wife had too much range anxiety, even for vehicles with 70 miles of range. I plotted out on a map how many trips she would have to take in a day (to work, to doctor, to pick up kid, to dentist, to store, etc.) in order to come even close to 70 miles. Of course, she never goes that far around town (only when visiting relatives, when I typically drive and we take a PHEV). But the RA was too great, so we got another PHEV. It has been useful at times to be able to both go 50+ miles in a day without any concern, but it's literally a handful of times over the years.
- gwbas1c 4mo ago
  > (only when visiting relatives, when I typically drive and we take a PHEV). But the RA was too great, so we got another PHEV. It has been useful at times to be able to both go 50+ miles in a day without any concern After the Leaf, we ended up with the Chrysler Pacifica PHEV and a Model 3. The PHEV had so many problems that I'll never recommend them, and dumped it early at a loss and went all-electric. (Both cars). We will never go back to gas. IMO, the main thing EVs need in the US is a good publicity campaign, more chargers, and better legislation of chargers. The technology is now "good enough" if you have access to a charger where you park overnight, and "almost there" if you can't charge overnight. (IE, if you rely on street parking stick with gas.)
  - apparent 4mo ago

Ekaros 4mo ago

It is weird point to be in. Almost a daily use of that range or significant part of it. As with less than daily use and short distances fuel is lot less critical. I am use case of going to shops a few times a week. Savings on fuel is not big thing as there isn't much used. And then when I actually need to travel longer distances the range is much more important. So EV would need to be very cheap to start making sense overall.