4 ms·

The separation of wealth during the Gilded age was caused by the same thing it is caused by today: rapid industrialization. This rapid industrialization began w

by Noaidi 4mo ago

The separation of wealth during the Gilded age was caused by the same thing it is caused by today: rapid industrialization. This rapid industrialization began when the US was off the gold standard during the civil war. The 1920's gilded age was fueled by fiat money, the greenback. The great depression was triggered in part by imbalanced gold flows when we returned to gold back currencies. https://explaininghistory.org/2025/06/12/golden-fetters-the-gold-standard-and-the-great-depression/#gold-standard-strains-and-global-instability-in-the-1920s https://explaininghistory.org/2025/06/12/golden-fetters-the-... We are essentially replaying the greenback inflation of the 1860's and have been doing it since 1971.

rawgabbit 4mo ago
From your linked article. ” The Wall Street Crash of October 1929 precipitated a U.S. recession, but it was the gold standard that converted this into a worldwide depression. With currencies locked to gold, there was little scope to ease monetary conditions. When the U.S. economy slumped, its import demand plummeted and it exported deflation to the rest of the world. Gold-standard countries could not respond by cutting interest rates or letting their currencies depreciate to stimulate exports – their priority was to defend the peg. As a result, economic downturns spread rapidly.”
- Noaidi 4mo ago
  It didn’t start with gold standard. It started with the issuance of greenbacks during the Civil War. If they never issued greenbacks during the Civil War, there would not have been an issue with going back on the gold standard.
  - rawgabbit 4mo ago
    Sorry. This is quixotic revisionism. What do you think happens during a war? Both the Union and the Confederacy were printing paper money like there is no tomorrow. In the case of the Confederacy, it was literally true.
    - anigbrowl 4mo ago
      The previous statements and yours are not in opposition. Both can be true.
throw0101d 4mo ago
> The separation of wealth during the Gilded age was caused by the same thing it is caused by today: rapid industrialization. What "rapid industrialization" is happening today?
- Noaidi 4mo ago
  Have you lived through the late 90s big tech boom or the current AI boom?
  - throw0101d 4mo ago
    > Have you lived through the late 90s big tech boom or the current AI boom? Inequality (at least in the US) started growing in the 1980s, after Reagan got elected. For causes I'd start with these: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedman_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedman_doctrine * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaganomics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaganomics
    - spwa4 4mo ago
      What people often forget is what preceded the Friedman Doctrine. Management would simply directly use company resources for their own personal benefit. This went from employing their entire family (and in the 1970's that did not mean 1 nephew, it meant 50 of them), to Free VIP access to Disneyworld, all-inclusive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club_33 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club_33 Frankly, my grandfather is dead now, but I did have one or two conversations with him about how equal society was before the Friedman doctrine, and, certainly for the first 30 years or so it was definitely more equal, not less. Which isn't to say that now the Friedman doctrine is causing a problem too. I just don't think the solution lies in turning it back. Economic arguments are so shallow these days. Even early communists pointed out that some functions in society will have unequal access to resources. This is not something that can be prevented while maintaining the use that that has. The means of production have a purpose and confiscating and redistributing them will do nothing but cause a disaster. It very much will not get everyone an iPhone and an apartment. And, the part communists forgot (and "forgot" in many cases) is that confiscating them simply creates a new upper class, it doesn't solve the class difference.
palmotea 4mo ago
> The 1920's gilded age was fueled by fiat money, the greenback. Cite? I'm pretty sure that the 1920s, $20 was literally a gold coin of a certain size.
throw0101d 4mo ago
> The 1920's gilded age was fueled by fiat money, the greenback. So-called fiat money didn't become a thing until after FDR became president, which was after 1932.
- nighthawk454 4mo ago
  > Greenbacks … a form of fiat money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenback_(1860s_money) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenback_(1860s_money)
  - SJC_Hacker 4mo ago
    This was a wartime measure. The US went back to a hard money system soon after the civil war ended
- Noaidi 4mo ago
  I think at this point you should read a bit more about the antebellum period.

by Noaidi 4mo ago

rawgabbit 4mo ago

From your linked article. ” The Wall Street Crash of October 1929 precipitated a U.S. recession, but it was the gold standard that converted this into a worldwide depression. With currencies locked to gold, there was little scope to ease monetary conditions. When the U.S. economy slumped, its import demand plummeted and it exported deflation to the rest of the world. Gold-standard countries could not respond by cutting interest rates or letting their currencies depreciate to stimulate exports – their priority was to defend the peg. As a result, economic downturns spread rapidly.”

Noaidi 4mo ago
It didn’t start with gold standard. It started with the issuance of greenbacks during the Civil War. If they never issued greenbacks during the Civil War, there would not have been an issue with going back on the gold standard.
- rawgabbit 4mo ago
  Sorry. This is quixotic revisionism. What do you think happens during a war? Both the Union and the Confederacy were printing paper money like there is no tomorrow. In the case of the Confederacy, it was literally true.
  - anigbrowl 4mo ago
    The previous statements and yours are not in opposition. Both can be true.

throw0101d 4mo ago

> The separation of wealth during the Gilded age was caused by the same thing it is caused by today: rapid industrialization. What "rapid industrialization" is happening today?

Noaidi 4mo ago
Have you lived through the late 90s big tech boom or the current AI boom?
- throw0101d 4mo ago
  > Have you lived through the late 90s big tech boom or the current AI boom? Inequality (at least in the US) started growing in the 1980s, after Reagan got elected. For causes I'd start with these: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedman_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedman_doctrine * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaganomics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaganomics
  - spwa4 4mo ago
    What people often forget is what preceded the Friedman Doctrine. Management would simply directly use company resources for their own personal benefit. This went from employing their entire family (and in the 1970's that did not mean 1 nephew, it meant 50 of them), to Free VIP access to Disneyworld, all-inclusive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club_33 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club_33 Frankly, my grandfather is dead now, but I did have one or two conversations with him about how equal society was before the Friedman doctrine, and, certainly for the first 30 years or so it was definitely more equal, not less. Which isn't to say that now the Friedman doctrine is causing a problem too. I just don't think the solution lies in turning it back. Economic arguments are so shallow these days. Even early communists pointed out that some functions in society will have unequal access to resources. This is not something that can be prevented while maintaining the use that that has. The means of production have a purpose and confiscating and redistributing them will do nothing but cause a disaster. It very much will not get everyone an iPhone and an apartment. And, the part communists forgot (and "forgot" in many cases) is that confiscating them simply creates a new upper class, it doesn't solve the class difference.

palmotea 4mo ago

> The 1920's gilded age was fueled by fiat money, the greenback. Cite? I'm pretty sure that the 1920s, $20 was literally a gold coin of a certain size.

throw0101d 4mo ago

> The 1920's gilded age was fueled by fiat money, the greenback. So-called fiat money didn't become a thing until after FDR became president, which was after 1932.

nighthawk454 4mo ago
> Greenbacks … a form of fiat money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenback_(1860s_money) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenback_(1860s_money)
- SJC_Hacker 4mo ago
  This was a wartime measure. The US went back to a hard money system soon after the civil war ended
Noaidi 4mo ago
I think at this point you should read a bit more about the antebellum period.