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Democracies building the tools of total autocracy. Real but fringe threats used to create the ultimate centralization of leverage. Can we actually think of the
by Nevermark 4mo ago
Democracies building the tools of total autocracy. Real but fringe threats used to create the ultimate centralization of leverage.
Can we actually think of the children? All the children? Their future?
When democracies forget that government is the greatest natural threat to freedom, they forget and undermine the reason we have democracies.
Technical solutions to zero-knowledge proofs of age-of-adulthood without loss of anonymity are recent but available now. The strongest argument for these is to take the wind out of alternatives.
Strangely, promoters of surveillance avoid these solutions.
Even stranger: the bizarre but prevalent counter argument that anonymity protecting solutions won't work, because the surreptitious goal of other solutions is precisely to strip anonymity. We apparently shouldn't do that, because the abusers won't like the wind being taken out of their "front" problems, with real but freedom-preserving solutions!
- inigyou 4mo agoYou can just lie by using someone else's ZKP. If that's not considered to be a problem, then the California approach of just asking the device owner is much better and you still don't need the ZKP.
- dredmorbius 4mo agoZKP: Zero Knowledge Proof, for the unfamiliar. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-knowledge_proof https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-knowledge_proof>
- Nevermark 4mo agoI am fine with device vouched sessions. That protect my and my devices' identities. > You can just lie by using someone else's ZKP. Yes, it is trivial to share access/identity, purposely or carelessly. Not sure what point you are making, since that isn't specific to ZKP.
- inigyou 4mo agoIf it's not ZK you can get arrested for sharing it
- Nevermark 4mo agoI assume you mean more likely arrested? Since legal liability would be the same. Logs of identity vs. access history being useful for investigating sharing? What kind of logs does California State keep?
- inigyou 4mo agoNone, presumably, since age verification is illegal there.
- Nevermark 4mo ago> If it's not ZK you can get arrested for sharing it What is the scenario where not using ZKP's gets you arrested. Who is collecting what information?
- inigyou 4mo agoI am John Smith, I give out my non-ZK age tokens, I get arrested because 200 people logged in as me today
- Nevermark 4mo agoYou didn't answer who is collating all that arrest-targeting information. It isn't news that adults can be irresponsible with age-verification credentials. Letting children use adult's credit cards isn't criminalized either. Adult sites not default-serving underage users does not require fine-grained surveillance or criminalizing clueless parents/adults.
- inigyou 4mo agoThe government, obviously, when the sites call it to check their tokens