5 ms·

> Codex is one of the most infamous examples of slopware Woah, let's not forget Claude code is right there

by jofzar 4mo ago

mvATM99 4mo ago
Yeah exactly. I'm not exactly building TUI's every day, but even i felt pain when i read that "small game engine" post
- TacticalCoder 4mo ago
  > I'm not exactly building TUI's every day, but even i felt pain when i read that "small game engine" post The bigger issue is they where somehow thinking it was "cool" and "advanced" while it's just a kludgy rube-goldbergy monstrous hack. Which is of course only semi-working: to me the model thinking what you see is what it outputs in the TUI is the deal-breaker for me. It's of course not working like that for they're apparently, in their "game engine", converting on the fly a headless browser to approximated characters to display in the terminal. So the model tells you he did output ASCII but people are copy/pasting (because, yes, at times you want to copy/paste) Unicode chars. Plenty of bug reports and pissed users. That's the bigger issue. The biggest issue is those thinking a 10 GB VM required to run a headless Electron browser and then fuxx0ring characters conversion is somehow an achievement.
  - dyarosla 4mo ago
    Whats the small game engine post?
    - gbnwl 4mo ago
      https://xcancel.com/trq212/status/2014051501786931427#m https://xcancel.com/trq212/status/2014051501786931427#m
      - Dilettante_ 4mo ago
        Seeing Jonathan blow invoked and his response in the comments tickled me pink
        inigyou 4mo ago
        Was it Casey Muratori that spoke about an AI educing allocations from 10k per frame to 200 per frame, but the manual programming work got it to 0 instead?
      - yencabulator 4mo ago
        The stupidest thing is that according to that logic, ncurses is a game engine too.
- matheusmoreira 4mo ago
  At least game engines manage to render their frames properly. Claude Code sometimes eats entire paragraphs of text output, resulting in things such as numbered lists jumping from 2 to 4 out of nowhere. I'd just ask Claude to repeat himself at first but it happens so often that I actually made a little tool to dig up the output inside the session history and present it properly in a separate terminal.
  - LtWorf 4mo ago
    Truly, the future!
kokada 4mo ago
Not that Claude Code is much better, I just hit this issue[1] because it seems setting DO_NOT_TRACK=1 seems enough to get a really strange behavior in the newest versions of CC. [1]: https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code/issues/69238#issuecomment-4753802631 https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code/issues/69238#issue... Edit: I think I misunderstood OP, they're saying that CC is even worse and not better than Codex CLI.
varjag 4mo ago
Right, just yesterday I found my laptop kinda hot. And what do you think, it was good old Claude deciding to load a few cores with completely idling prompts.
- cozzyd 4mo ago
  Yeah, somehow claude-cli sitting in a tmux session doing nothing uses my laptops battery twice as fast. Powertop suggests a ton of wakeups, but why? Is it busy polling the input or something?
  - varjag 4mo ago
    Polling the Department of Trade for Order 66
iLoveOncall 4mo ago
Surprisingly Kiro is fine (I work at Amazon but not at all on the Kiro team). I prefer it to anything else I've tried (except Amazon Q Developer in IntelliJ, but it's now deprecated).
- epistasis 4mo ago
  Kiro is surprisingly good, if the interface for saving and resuming was slightly more reliable, and there was the hope of remote sessions, I'd probably switch to it full time. I vastly prefer it to having to fight against buggy force-fed features like UltraPlan or whatever.
me551ah 4mo ago
Claude is also weird for being the only coding assistant that for some reason doesn't support AGENTS.md. Codex, Amp, Cursor all of them support it and read from it, but not claude which forces it's users to use CLAUDE.md instead. The issue is the higest voted issue on their gitlab repo: https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code/issues/6235 https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code/issues/6235
- ValentineC 4mo ago
  My CLAUDE.md is just: @AGENTS.md And Claude processes it just fine. (I see that it's a common workaround, and there's a comment in the above link saying just this: https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code/issues/6235#issuecomment-3217884068 https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code/issues/6235#issuec...) It's a hassle having to add it to every repo that I use Claude with though, and I often use other models and harnesses too for the more trivial tasks.
  - troupo 4mo ago
    I beg people to learn what symlinks are. The fact that "put @AGENTS.md in there" is a "common workaround" shows why programmers (good ones at least) are not going anywhere soon.
    - ahtihn 4mo ago
      Symlinks are a pain if you're on Windows, I'd rather not bother with them.
      - qwertox 4mo ago
        I never had any issues with them. And they fixed my problems in a good way.
      - drysine 4mo ago
        >Symlinks are a pain if you're on Windows How so?
    - 4mo ago
sambcui 4mo ago
I don’t know if you can resonate, but I feel like the Vibe Coded codex and Claude Code desktop apps are iterating way faster than they should be.
- malfist 4mo ago
  How are they iterating? I've not noticed anything major changing between the versions of my claude code. Other than that sometimes this version includes /btw and sometimes it's missing.

> Codex is one of the most infamous examples of slopware Woah, let's not forget Claude code is right there

by jofzar 4mo ago

> Codex is one of the most infamous examples of slopware Woah, let's not forget Claude code is right there

mvATM99 4mo ago

Yeah exactly. I'm not exactly building TUI's every day, but even i felt pain when i read that "small game engine" post

TacticalCoder 4mo ago
> I'm not exactly building TUI's every day, but even i felt pain when i read that "small game engine" post The bigger issue is they where somehow thinking it was "cool" and "advanced" while it's just a kludgy rube-goldbergy monstrous hack. Which is of course only semi-working: to me the model thinking what you see is what it outputs in the TUI is the deal-breaker for me. It's of course not working like that for they're apparently, in their "game engine", converting on the fly a headless browser to approximated characters to display in the terminal. So the model tells you he did output ASCII but people are copy/pasting (because, yes, at times you want to copy/paste) Unicode chars. Plenty of bug reports and pissed users. That's the bigger issue. The biggest issue is those thinking a 10 GB VM required to run a headless Electron browser and then fuxx0ring characters conversion is somehow an achievement.
- dyarosla 4mo ago
  Whats the small game engine post?
  - gbnwl 4mo ago
    https://xcancel.com/trq212/status/2014051501786931427#m https://xcancel.com/trq212/status/2014051501786931427#m
    - Dilettante_ 4mo ago
      Seeing Jonathan blow invoked and his response in the comments tickled me pink
      - inigyou 4mo ago
        Was it Casey Muratori that spoke about an AI educing allocations from 10k per frame to 200 per frame, but the manual programming work got it to 0 instead?
    - yencabulator 4mo ago
      The stupidest thing is that according to that logic, ncurses is a game engine too.
matheusmoreira 4mo ago
At least game engines manage to render their frames properly. Claude Code sometimes eats entire paragraphs of text output, resulting in things such as numbered lists jumping from 2 to 4 out of nowhere. I'd just ask Claude to repeat himself at first but it happens so often that I actually made a little tool to dig up the output inside the session history and present it properly in a separate terminal.
- LtWorf 4mo ago
  Truly, the future!

kokada 4mo ago

Not that Claude Code is much better, I just hit this issue[1] because it seems setting DO_NOT_TRACK=1 seems enough to get a really strange behavior in the newest versions of CC. [1]: https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code/issues/69238#issuecomment-4753802631 https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code/issues/69238#issue... Edit: I think I misunderstood OP, they're saying that CC is even worse and not better than Codex CLI.

varjag 4mo ago

Right, just yesterday I found my laptop kinda hot. And what do you think, it was good old Claude deciding to load a few cores with completely idling prompts.

cozzyd 4mo ago
Yeah, somehow claude-cli sitting in a tmux session doing nothing uses my laptops battery twice as fast. Powertop suggests a ton of wakeups, but why? Is it busy polling the input or something?
- varjag 4mo ago
  Polling the Department of Trade for Order 66

iLoveOncall 4mo ago

Surprisingly Kiro is fine (I work at Amazon but not at all on the Kiro team). I prefer it to anything else I've tried (except Amazon Q Developer in IntelliJ, but it's now deprecated).

epistasis 4mo ago
Kiro is surprisingly good, if the interface for saving and resuming was slightly more reliable, and there was the hope of remote sessions, I'd probably switch to it full time. I vastly prefer it to having to fight against buggy force-fed features like UltraPlan or whatever.

me551ah 4mo ago

Claude is also weird for being the only coding assistant that for some reason doesn't support AGENTS.md. Codex, Amp, Cursor all of them support it and read from it, but not claude which forces it's users to use CLAUDE.md instead. The issue is the higest voted issue on their gitlab repo: https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code/issues/6235 https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code/issues/6235

ValentineC 4mo ago
My CLAUDE.md is just: @AGENTS.md And Claude processes it just fine. (I see that it's a common workaround, and there's a comment in the above link saying just this: https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code/issues/6235#issuecomment-3217884068 https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code/issues/6235#issuec...) It's a hassle having to add it to every repo that I use Claude with though, and I often use other models and harnesses too for the more trivial tasks.
- troupo 4mo ago
  I beg people to learn what symlinks are. The fact that "put @AGENTS.md in there" is a "common workaround" shows why programmers (good ones at least) are not going anywhere soon.
  - ahtihn 4mo ago
    Symlinks are a pain if you're on Windows, I'd rather not bother with them.
    - qwertox 4mo ago
      I never had any issues with them. And they fixed my problems in a good way.
    - drysine 4mo ago
      >Symlinks are a pain if you're on Windows How so?
  - 4mo ago

sambcui 4mo ago

I don’t know if you can resonate, but I feel like the Vibe Coded codex and Claude Code desktop apps are iterating way faster than they should be.

malfist 4mo ago
How are they iterating? I've not noticed anything major changing between the versions of my claude code. Other than that sometimes this version includes /btw and sometimes it's missing.