4 ms·

>A successful case might be Luigi Mangione. Sorry, but how was that murder successful? Did it achieve the effect that everyone is getting cheaper healthcare n

>A successful case might be Luigi Mangione. Sorry, but how was that murder successful? Did it achieve the effect that everyone is getting cheaper healthcare now? OR, on the contrary, it only achieved that CEOs are now getting more anonymity and private security, while the plebs are getting more invasive law enforcement tracking like Palantir and Flock shoved up their ass to prevent them from doing something like that again?

justinclift 4mo ago
[flagged]
- joe_mamba 4mo ago
  >One less psychopath in charge of a US health care provider being around? What kind of broken logic is this? What good did this do for you if the end result for you is the same or worse now? Other than feel good for vigilante vengeance than then backfires on you in the end. It's not like there's a shortage of CEOs to take his place and keep doing the same thing. You're not in a comic book movie where if you kill the main "bad guy" then society magically fixes itself at the end, because there is no main villain here, society is broken not because of the decisions of one CEO, but because of a combination of decisions of thousands of people, factors and incentives accumulated over decades that lead to healthcare and other things sucking, and you don't fix it overnight by killing one guy, you instead just make it worse for everyone else who isn't a murderer. You fix it by talking, campaigning, gathering people and voting, knowing that it will also take decades to undo, the same way as it took decades to get to this stage. That's the only way you enact change that will will guarantee bi-partisan buy-in and actually stick around for the long term. Policy changes implemented by populist movements under threat of violence rarely produce good outcomes that last.
  - justinclift 4mo ago
    > What kind of broken logic is this? It's not even slightly broken. It's about the people responsible for destroying the lives of those they're supposed to be helping, instead abusing those people for personal gain. Is that really something you think should keep heading in the same abusive direction it's been going for many years? :(
    - joe_mamba 4mo ago
      [flagged]
      - inigyou 4mo ago
        [flagged]
        inigyou 4mo ago
        [flagged]
      - justinclift 4mo ago
        [flagged]
        joe_mamba 4mo ago
        My biggest wish in life would be that every champagne socialist that unironically says "America is a third world country", we just send them to an actual thirld world country like Zimbabwe, Congo, Sudan, Cuba, North Korea and import a genuine refugee from there in their place. This way we can make two people happy at the same time(three if you include me), and the lottery of birth advantage evens out, so the world becomes more fair and less unequal.
      - calgoo 4mo ago
        Sorry the justice system is setup to protect them, not you. By putting fear in the leaders of these companies, and showing people that yes, you CAN actually stand up to their corrupt ways and beat them because in the end they are just people, even if they don't see you that way.
        joe_mamba 4mo ago
        >By putting fear in the leaders of these companies I'm sure people who control the economy, pahrma, law enforcement, military and intelligence agencies are shivering because of fear from people with glocks.
  - DrSiemer 4mo ago
    If the system is rigged heavily against you, relying on it to affect change does feel like a losing strategy. The fact that such a large part of the population supports literal murder could also be considered a political statement. One that would not have been expressed so strongly without what happened. So much of this madness could be resolved with a simple income cap. Musk’s wealth grew by $1 million per minute over the past year. Who can seriously argue that this is fair and balanced?
    - Mainan_Tagonist 4mo ago
      Are you talking about income or actual wealth? Your income may remain constant while your wealth rises significantly (say... because your investments are doing well, because you inherited... etc). The two are often confused when talking about (tech) billionaires.
      - DrSiemer 4mo ago
        Wealth, not income. The statistic is about net worth growth. Saying "that's wealth, not income" doesn't refute it. It just clarifies the mechanism.
    - justinclift 4mo ago
      > So much of this madness could be resolved with a simple income cap. The problem (to me) is less the "wealth" of these psychopath CEOs, and more that they're literally taking advantage of the people they're supposed to be helping, for their own benefit. The concept of an income cap might fix that in some situations, but I'm unsure how complete a fix that would be.
- JumpCrisscross 4mo ago
  > in charge of Please, he was a middle manager with a CEO title.
- dang 4mo ago
  Whoa, you can't do this on HN, regardless of how you feel about health care policy or psychopathy. You've been here a long time, so you ought to be familiar with why comments like this destroy what HN is supposed to be for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and re-taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful. Your recent comments have veered into flamebait and guidelines breakage, and it would be good to course-correct.
ngruhn 4mo ago
> Sorry, but how was that murder successful? Successful in winning over the public.
- krapp 4mo ago
  The public was already on Luigi Mangione's side in theory. In practice however he didn't inspire further revolutionary action by the public, because they were pacified by memes. And that's why he's a failure.
  - wqaatwt 4mo ago
    Also because most people presumably aren’t really into indiscriminate irrational murder. The victim was a merely an entirely replaceable cog in an unfair system (also a human being who had a family and there is no real evidence he personally was anymore nefarious than other men in similar positions).
    - krapp 4mo ago
      >Also because most people presumably aren’t really into indiscriminate irrational murder It was murder, but it was neither indiscriminate nor irrational. Certainly not in a culture that enshrines the right to shoot people as its second most sacred Constitutional principle.
- s1artibartfast 4mo ago
  From what to what? Be specific. Were there people that liked high Healthcare bills that changed their mind? Was there a way of politicians elected to implement socialized Healthcare that I missed?
- joe_mamba 4mo ago
  Clearly not since members of the public turned him in to the police.
soco 4mo ago
How would be the US now without Luigi Mangione? Would you have cheaper healthcare? Would Palantir or Flock disappear?
- themaninthedark 4mo ago
  You don't understand how it works, imagine a world where 9/11 never happened. Do you think that this alternative universe would not have the equivalent of TSA and Five Eyes? It would. These things do not exist because $event happened, they exist because they are useful to those in power. Look at the city of Trinidad, TX for example: Lady is arrested because of Facebook about how she heard that brown colored water coming from pipes has hospitalized people. Another guy because he is protesting the arrest. Her crime is "Felony false alarm". His crime "Disorderly conduct". Both laws created, I am sure, to combat issues the community or state has had to deal with. But also able to be used to suppress people those in power dislike.
- joe_mamba 4mo ago
  >How would be the US now without Luigi Mangione? More or less the same except a family of kids would not be missing their father and grow up with the idea of wanting to get revenge on their father's murderer. An eye-for-an-eye never makes good societies which is why all civilized countries outlawed their practice. >Would Palantir or Flock disappear? The more elites you murders, the more of your tax dollars the elites will send to the military and law enforcement to better protect them from you and the more of your tax dollars they'll send to Palantir and Flock to spy on you. You can't win this by killing elites, they have more money, more guns than you and their guns are bigger and more powerful than yours. You win by enacting change through popular votes.
inigyou 4mo ago
[flagged]
- JumpCrisscross 4mo ago
  Source?
  - striking 4mo ago
    From https://www.newsweek.com/brian-thompson-muder-health-insurance-2001041 https://www.newsweek.com/brian-thompson-muder-health-insuran... > The fatal shooting of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson has prompted healthcare executives to say they will address growing frustrations among Americans struggling with access to and costs of medical care. From https://www.cnn.com/2025/06/23/health/health-insurers-preapproval-process-commitment https://www.cnn.com/2025/06/23/health/health-insurers-preapp... > Months after the killing of a top health insurance executive unleashed Americans’ pent-up anger over denials of medical care, the industry announced Monday that it will take action to “streamline, simplify and reduce” the preapproval process. However, from https://www.cnn.com/2025/12/04/health/insurers-prior-authorization-unitedhealthcare-ceo https://www.cnn.com/2025/12/04/health/insurers-prior-authori... > However, multiple provider associations and patient advocacy groups interviewed by CNN say that little, if anything, has changed over the past year. So, hard to say for sure.
    - JumpCrisscross 4mo ago
      > hard to say for sure I don’t think it is. Healthcare prices are widely tracked. They’ve been rising faster than inflation for years. I have seen zero evidence that trend even temporarily abated after Luigi.
      - inigyou 4mo ago
        my bad, it was actually denial rates that improved
        4mo ago
pepperoni_pizza 4mo ago
> Sorry, but how was that murder successful? There's many anecdotes of people who managed to get lifesaving or lifechanging treatments in the panic after the CEO got murdered. Obviously, anecdotes aren't data - but it is highly likely that even though one life was lost, many were saved.

justinclift 4mo ago

[flagged]

joe_mamba 4mo ago
>One less psychopath in charge of a US health care provider being around? What kind of broken logic is this? What good did this do for you if the end result for you is the same or worse now? Other than feel good for vigilante vengeance than then backfires on you in the end. It's not like there's a shortage of CEOs to take his place and keep doing the same thing. You're not in a comic book movie where if you kill the main "bad guy" then society magically fixes itself at the end, because there is no main villain here, society is broken not because of the decisions of one CEO, but because of a combination of decisions of thousands of people, factors and incentives accumulated over decades that lead to healthcare and other things sucking, and you don't fix it overnight by killing one guy, you instead just make it worse for everyone else who isn't a murderer. You fix it by talking, campaigning, gathering people and voting, knowing that it will also take decades to undo, the same way as it took decades to get to this stage. That's the only way you enact change that will will guarantee bi-partisan buy-in and actually stick around for the long term. Policy changes implemented by populist movements under threat of violence rarely produce good outcomes that last.
- justinclift 4mo ago
  > What kind of broken logic is this? It's not even slightly broken. It's about the people responsible for destroying the lives of those they're supposed to be helping, instead abusing those people for personal gain. Is that really something you think should keep heading in the same abusive direction it's been going for many years? :(
  - joe_mamba 4mo ago
    [flagged]
    - inigyou 4mo ago
      [flagged]
      - inigyou 4mo ago
        [flagged]
    - justinclift 4mo ago
      [flagged]
      - joe_mamba 4mo ago
        My biggest wish in life would be that every champagne socialist that unironically says "America is a third world country", we just send them to an actual thirld world country like Zimbabwe, Congo, Sudan, Cuba, North Korea and import a genuine refugee from there in their place. This way we can make two people happy at the same time(three if you include me), and the lottery of birth advantage evens out, so the world becomes more fair and less unequal.
    - calgoo 4mo ago
      Sorry the justice system is setup to protect them, not you. By putting fear in the leaders of these companies, and showing people that yes, you CAN actually stand up to their corrupt ways and beat them because in the end they are just people, even if they don't see you that way.
      - joe_mamba 4mo ago
        >By putting fear in the leaders of these companies I'm sure people who control the economy, pahrma, law enforcement, military and intelligence agencies are shivering because of fear from people with glocks.
- DrSiemer 4mo ago
  If the system is rigged heavily against you, relying on it to affect change does feel like a losing strategy. The fact that such a large part of the population supports literal murder could also be considered a political statement. One that would not have been expressed so strongly without what happened. So much of this madness could be resolved with a simple income cap. Musk’s wealth grew by $1 million per minute over the past year. Who can seriously argue that this is fair and balanced?
  - Mainan_Tagonist 4mo ago
    Are you talking about income or actual wealth? Your income may remain constant while your wealth rises significantly (say... because your investments are doing well, because you inherited... etc). The two are often confused when talking about (tech) billionaires.
    - DrSiemer 4mo ago
      Wealth, not income. The statistic is about net worth growth. Saying "that's wealth, not income" doesn't refute it. It just clarifies the mechanism.
  - justinclift 4mo ago
    > So much of this madness could be resolved with a simple income cap. The problem (to me) is less the "wealth" of these psychopath CEOs, and more that they're literally taking advantage of the people they're supposed to be helping, for their own benefit. The concept of an income cap might fix that in some situations, but I'm unsure how complete a fix that would be.
JumpCrisscross 4mo ago
> in charge of Please, he was a middle manager with a CEO title.
dang 4mo ago
Whoa, you can't do this on HN, regardless of how you feel about health care policy or psychopathy. You've been here a long time, so you ought to be familiar with why comments like this destroy what HN is supposed to be for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and re-taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful. Your recent comments have veered into flamebait and guidelines breakage, and it would be good to course-correct.

ngruhn 4mo ago

> Sorry, but how was that murder successful? Successful in winning over the public.

krapp 4mo ago
The public was already on Luigi Mangione's side in theory. In practice however he didn't inspire further revolutionary action by the public, because they were pacified by memes. And that's why he's a failure.
- wqaatwt 4mo ago
  Also because most people presumably aren’t really into indiscriminate irrational murder. The victim was a merely an entirely replaceable cog in an unfair system (also a human being who had a family and there is no real evidence he personally was anymore nefarious than other men in similar positions).
  - krapp 4mo ago
    >Also because most people presumably aren’t really into indiscriminate irrational murder It was murder, but it was neither indiscriminate nor irrational. Certainly not in a culture that enshrines the right to shoot people as its second most sacred Constitutional principle.
s1artibartfast 4mo ago
From what to what? Be specific. Were there people that liked high Healthcare bills that changed their mind? Was there a way of politicians elected to implement socialized Healthcare that I missed?
joe_mamba 4mo ago
Clearly not since members of the public turned him in to the police.

soco 4mo ago

How would be the US now without Luigi Mangione? Would you have cheaper healthcare? Would Palantir or Flock disappear?

themaninthedark 4mo ago
You don't understand how it works, imagine a world where 9/11 never happened. Do you think that this alternative universe would not have the equivalent of TSA and Five Eyes? It would. These things do not exist because $event happened, they exist because they are useful to those in power. Look at the city of Trinidad, TX for example: Lady is arrested because of Facebook about how she heard that brown colored water coming from pipes has hospitalized people. Another guy because he is protesting the arrest. Her crime is "Felony false alarm". His crime "Disorderly conduct". Both laws created, I am sure, to combat issues the community or state has had to deal with. But also able to be used to suppress people those in power dislike.
joe_mamba 4mo ago
>How would be the US now without Luigi Mangione? More or less the same except a family of kids would not be missing their father and grow up with the idea of wanting to get revenge on their father's murderer. An eye-for-an-eye never makes good societies which is why all civilized countries outlawed their practice. >Would Palantir or Flock disappear? The more elites you murders, the more of your tax dollars the elites will send to the military and law enforcement to better protect them from you and the more of your tax dollars they'll send to Palantir and Flock to spy on you. You can't win this by killing elites, they have more money, more guns than you and their guns are bigger and more powerful than yours. You win by enacting change through popular votes.

inigyou 4mo ago

[flagged]

JumpCrisscross 4mo ago
Source?
- striking 4mo ago
  From https://www.newsweek.com/brian-thompson-muder-health-insurance-2001041 https://www.newsweek.com/brian-thompson-muder-health-insuran... > The fatal shooting of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson has prompted healthcare executives to say they will address growing frustrations among Americans struggling with access to and costs of medical care. From https://www.cnn.com/2025/06/23/health/health-insurers-preapproval-process-commitment https://www.cnn.com/2025/06/23/health/health-insurers-preapp... > Months after the killing of a top health insurance executive unleashed Americans’ pent-up anger over denials of medical care, the industry announced Monday that it will take action to “streamline, simplify and reduce” the preapproval process. However, from https://www.cnn.com/2025/12/04/health/insurers-prior-authorization-unitedhealthcare-ceo https://www.cnn.com/2025/12/04/health/insurers-prior-authori... > However, multiple provider associations and patient advocacy groups interviewed by CNN say that little, if anything, has changed over the past year. So, hard to say for sure.
  - JumpCrisscross 4mo ago
    > hard to say for sure I don’t think it is. Healthcare prices are widely tracked. They’ve been rising faster than inflation for years. I have seen zero evidence that trend even temporarily abated after Luigi.
    - inigyou 4mo ago
      my bad, it was actually denial rates that improved
      - 4mo ago

pepperoni_pizza 4mo ago

> Sorry, but how was that murder successful? There's many anecdotes of people who managed to get lifesaving or lifechanging treatments in the panic after the CEO got murdered. Obviously, anecdotes aren't data - but it is highly likely that even though one life was lost, many were saved.