4 ms·

It's been exceptionally successful in Singapore, for one.

dreijs 4mo ago
I currently live in an HDB property in Singapore. It's great. I'm originally from the Netherlands, which traditionally had a strong social housing sector: regions and cities would have their own housing corporations ('woningbouwcorporaties') tasked with building affordable housing. Those corporations were given government support after 1950 to help with the post-WW2 housing shortage, but were semi-privatized in the mid-90s, and in 2015 their scope was strongly curtailed. It would be reductive to say that this privatization was the sole cause of the current housing crisis affecting the Netherlands -- rents and housing prices have also increased a lot in Singapore since Covid -- but it probably didn't help.
- eru 4mo ago
  Rents and housing prices went down a lot in Singapore during Covid. So them going up again afterwards is just a reversion to the mean.
youre-wrong3 4mo ago
Singapore doesn’t have social housing. HDB is government built and sold for 99 year lease hold.
- tovej 4mo ago
  You're describing a form of social housing.
  - youre-wrong3 4mo ago
    No. Because HDBs are not owned by the government.
    - bluebarbet 4mo ago
      Yes. Because "social housing" is a general term that implies subsidization and affordability rather than any one specific ownership model.
      - youre-wrong3 4mo ago
        No. Social housing is government owned and rented. Singapore is government built and sold. Singapore is a tiny island with little space. The government has to control what is built where and avoids it turning into Hong Kong slums.
        bluebarbet 4mo ago
        You're being stubborn. From Wikipedia: >Public housing, also known as social housing, is subsidized or affordable housing provided in buildings that are usually owned and managed by local government, central government, nonprofit organizations or a combination thereof.
        youre-wrong3 4mo ago
        ITS NOT OWNED AND MANAGED BY THE GOVERNMENT. You literally just quoted why it’s not public housing. Jesus Christ.
        eru 4mo ago
        Wikipedia says 'usually'. And, yes, you are right that the individual HDB flats are typically owned by individual families (though the government also owns some and rents them out, but that's the exception). However, HDB still does a lot of the managing. Eg HDB manages the lifts and other common spaces. They organise getting the exterior repainted, or general upgrading works to plumbing etc. HDB also subsidises the price of a flat when you buy directly from them. There's a reason they have maximum income caps for buying. My unpopular opinion: HDB should declare victory and go home. They more than solved the original acute housing shortage they were created for. --- Singapore does a lot of things right. And HDB is, as usually a lot more competent than pretty much any other public housing programme anywhere else in the world. But that doesn't mean everything Singapore does (including HDB) is automatically a good idea forever. Just like our local recreational drug policy could probably be improved by moving closer to what we do with the casinos. And the ban on vaping is just silly.

I currently live in an HDB property in Singapore. It's great. I'm originally from the Netherlands, which traditionally had a strong social housing sector: regions and cities would have their own housing corporations ('woningbouwcorporaties') tasked with building affordable housing. Those corporations were given government support after 1950 to help with the post-WW2 housing shortage, but were semi-privatized in the mid-90s, and in 2015 their scope was strongly curtailed. It would be reductive to say that this privatization was the sole cause of the current housing crisis affecting the Netherlands -- rents and housing prices have also increased a lot in Singapore since Covid -- but it probably didn't help.

eru 4mo ago
Rents and housing prices went down a lot in Singapore during Covid. So them going up again afterwards is just a reversion to the mean.

youre-wrong3 4mo ago

Singapore doesn’t have social housing. HDB is government built and sold for 99 year lease hold.

tovej 4mo ago
You're describing a form of social housing.
- youre-wrong3 4mo ago
  No. Because HDBs are not owned by the government.
  - bluebarbet 4mo ago
    Yes. Because "social housing" is a general term that implies subsidization and affordability rather than any one specific ownership model.
    - youre-wrong3 4mo ago
      No. Social housing is government owned and rented. Singapore is government built and sold. Singapore is a tiny island with little space. The government has to control what is built where and avoids it turning into Hong Kong slums.
      - bluebarbet 4mo ago
        You're being stubborn. From Wikipedia: >Public housing, also known as social housing, is subsidized or affordable housing provided in buildings that are usually owned and managed by local government, central government, nonprofit organizations or a combination thereof.
        youre-wrong3 4mo ago
        ITS NOT OWNED AND MANAGED BY THE GOVERNMENT. You literally just quoted why it’s not public housing. Jesus Christ.
        eru 4mo ago
        Wikipedia says 'usually'. And, yes, you are right that the individual HDB flats are typically owned by individual families (though the government also owns some and rents them out, but that's the exception). However, HDB still does a lot of the managing. Eg HDB manages the lifts and other common spaces. They organise getting the exterior repainted, or general upgrading works to plumbing etc. HDB also subsidises the price of a flat when you buy directly from them. There's a reason they have maximum income caps for buying. My unpopular opinion: HDB should declare victory and go home. They more than solved the original acute housing shortage they were created for. --- Singapore does a lot of things right. And HDB is, as usually a lot more competent than pretty much any other public housing programme anywhere else in the world. But that doesn't mean everything Singapore does (including HDB) is automatically a good idea forever. Just like our local recreational drug policy could probably be improved by moving closer to what we do with the casinos. And the ban on vaping is just silly.