3 ms·

> You should be able to select freely who you want to have live in your house We already tried that. It turns out that people are racist, so now we need laws t

> You should be able to select freely who you want to have live in your house We already tried that. It turns out that people are racist, so now we need laws to protect against that. It sucks for all the decent non-racist folks but the alternative of not having those protections was far worse.

nikkwong 4mo ago
If you force people to have someone in their house that they don't want, they are not going to rent their house out. This will lead to less units on the market. Your point about racism is fair, but I don't think the answer is a solution that reduces rentable units on the market.
- craftkiller 4mo ago
  What alternative solution to housing-related racism would you suggest?
  - derektank 4mo ago
    The one that actually exists? Have you never heard of the HUD fair housing initiatives programs? You hire a white actor and a black actor with the same job, income, credit, etc and if a landlord consistently refuses to rent to the black actors, you sic the DoJ on them for violating the Fair Housing Act
    - craftkiller 4mo ago
      Nope, I hadn't heard of that. Neat. I see two problems though: 1. I can see this being effective against larger landlord that will have many units available every year, ensuring that adequate testing can be performed. But on smaller landlords with only a few units, it seems like it'd be hard to test. (for example, you get rejected from an apartment. The landlord rents it out to someone else. You file a FHIP complaint, but the landlord no longer has any units available so they cannot test.) 2. It seems like this is largely driven by complaints? If I was rejected from an apartment, I'm not sure how I'm supposed to glean whether or not it was based on race.
      - kelnos 4mo ago
        Re #2: I feel like people of the kinds of races that often get discriminated against have pretty decent radar when it comes to figuring out why they were rejected.
- inigyou 4mo ago
  Okay, sell it to someone who will live there then. You're not a saint for taking a unit someone wants to buy and forcing them to rent instead.
CamperBob2 4mo ago
How is renting different from hiring in that regard? Nobody would consider requiring employers to hire the first qualified candidate, but at the same time, we don't allow employers to discriminate on the basis of race. Why couldn't the same law apply to residential leasing?
- craftkiller 4mo ago
  Are we sure that law is working as intended? Or are employers simply not admitting to factoring race into the decision? It is next to impossible to prove a candidate was rejected on the basis of race, especially when you can legally reject someone for not being a "culture fit" on the team. I'd also argue the stakes are higher when leasing, so landlords will be less likely to take a chance on a race they don't like. Most jobs in the US are at-will employment so you can be fired at any time for almost any reason, but evicting a tenant can be a long process.
  - modo_mario 4mo ago
    >t is next to impossible to prove a candidate was rejected on the basis of race It is possible to prove a company is disproportionally one or the other when making the claim. Of course when an industry has far less applicants or members of a certain group that's to be expected but still. Consequentially I've heard of some pretty blatant race based selection especially in the US. It's just that that selection ends up excluding white people (or east asians) A while ago I even discussed with a hr person here on hn who was defending their hiring of that sort with the most flowery wording about 'just giving priority' or 'reaching out to members of their prefered group specifically' fist if all they get is not the desired group.
cyberax 4mo ago
This is utter BS. Seattle is about 40% non-White. And has never been racist, or even had slavery (outside the Native population).
- kelnos 4mo ago
  If you think there aren't any racist landlords in Seattle (or any particular place), then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you... Having a large non-white population is not a protection against race-related discrimination.
  - cyberax 4mo ago
    Of course there are racist people in Seattle. But they are not a significant part of the population.
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]

nikkwong 4mo ago

If you force people to have someone in their house that they don't want, they are not going to rent their house out. This will lead to less units on the market. Your point about racism is fair, but I don't think the answer is a solution that reduces rentable units on the market.

craftkiller 4mo ago
What alternative solution to housing-related racism would you suggest?
- derektank 4mo ago
  The one that actually exists? Have you never heard of the HUD fair housing initiatives programs? You hire a white actor and a black actor with the same job, income, credit, etc and if a landlord consistently refuses to rent to the black actors, you sic the DoJ on them for violating the Fair Housing Act
  - craftkiller 4mo ago
    Nope, I hadn't heard of that. Neat. I see two problems though: 1. I can see this being effective against larger landlord that will have many units available every year, ensuring that adequate testing can be performed. But on smaller landlords with only a few units, it seems like it'd be hard to test. (for example, you get rejected from an apartment. The landlord rents it out to someone else. You file a FHIP complaint, but the landlord no longer has any units available so they cannot test.) 2. It seems like this is largely driven by complaints? If I was rejected from an apartment, I'm not sure how I'm supposed to glean whether or not it was based on race.
    - kelnos 4mo ago
      Re #2: I feel like people of the kinds of races that often get discriminated against have pretty decent radar when it comes to figuring out why they were rejected.
inigyou 4mo ago
Okay, sell it to someone who will live there then. You're not a saint for taking a unit someone wants to buy and forcing them to rent instead.

CamperBob2 4mo ago

How is renting different from hiring in that regard? Nobody would consider requiring employers to hire the first qualified candidate, but at the same time, we don't allow employers to discriminate on the basis of race. Why couldn't the same law apply to residential leasing?

craftkiller 4mo ago
Are we sure that law is working as intended? Or are employers simply not admitting to factoring race into the decision? It is next to impossible to prove a candidate was rejected on the basis of race, especially when you can legally reject someone for not being a "culture fit" on the team. I'd also argue the stakes are higher when leasing, so landlords will be less likely to take a chance on a race they don't like. Most jobs in the US are at-will employment so you can be fired at any time for almost any reason, but evicting a tenant can be a long process.
- modo_mario 4mo ago
  >t is next to impossible to prove a candidate was rejected on the basis of race It is possible to prove a company is disproportionally one or the other when making the claim. Of course when an industry has far less applicants or members of a certain group that's to be expected but still. Consequentially I've heard of some pretty blatant race based selection especially in the US. It's just that that selection ends up excluding white people (or east asians) A while ago I even discussed with a hr person here on hn who was defending their hiring of that sort with the most flowery wording about 'just giving priority' or 'reaching out to members of their prefered group specifically' fist if all they get is not the desired group.

cyberax 4mo ago

This is utter BS. Seattle is about 40% non-White. And has never been racist, or even had slavery (outside the Native population).

kelnos 4mo ago
If you think there aren't any racist landlords in Seattle (or any particular place), then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you... Having a large non-white population is not a protection against race-related discrimination.
- cyberax 4mo ago
  Of course there are racist people in Seattle. But they are not a significant part of the population.
deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]