3 ms·

Sure. But OpenAI is the same price. Why would I pay $18/month for z.ai when OpenAI is $20/month?

by pkulak 4mo ago

CJefferson 4mo ago
One big advantage I’ve found — people get attached to models (including me). With open models if you find one that works perfectly for you but the next version doesn’t, you can run the old one forever (or someone will for you)
- taytus 4mo ago
  This is a good point I never thought of. I appreciate it.
- itake 4mo ago
  But… the models will fall behind. As libraries and languages and tool calling updates or the world knowledge changes, the models decay. Personally, I don’t like the change, but it’s just how technology works so I’d rather move with the flow than try to stick my foot down and freeze time.
  - OtomotO 4mo ago
    No problem, "AI" will just write its own frameworks and libs then!
  - hypfer 4mo ago
    > But… the models will fall behind. Yes but why does that matter? If I am happy with its capabilities now, I will continue being happy with its capabilities in the future. Yes, it cannot do the newest magic shit, but why does that matter? It can still do everything that existed up until that point, which is _a lot_. Eventually, you might also need something new, but it's not like the world shifts over all problems that exist from <old> to <new> and any tech for <old> problems suddenly becomes obsolete?
    - itake 4mo ago
      ideally, the software produced should include the latest security patches. If the model prefers a version of Ruby or node with an RCE, I guess you can burn tokens to teach the model how to avoid the introducing the vulnerability into your code? That feels quite tedious and token inefficient..
      - hypfer 4mo ago
        I'm sorry, but.. are you being serious? Yes. Yes. The only way one can write secure software is by always using the latest SOTA model. Anything else is inefficient and vulnerable. I hate this platform
        itake 4mo ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46809708 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46809708 Maybe you missed this article, but vercel found it quite annoying to teach AI about the latest updates in the React Framework. I think you’re confusing my point. I’m not saying that only SOTA models can write secure software, I’m saying that the models produced today will write software that’s considered insecure by 2034 standards, thus you would require to burn more tokens in AGENTS.md or burn more of your time to hand write code. For example, you’re more than welcome to run Windows ME if it does everything you need it to, but that doesn’t mean Windows ME is a secure environment.
        0xbadcafebee 4mo ago
        Another solution might also be to stop reinventing the wheel every few years. New languages aren't producing better software. But people keep churning new languages out, and they become popular because humans have emotional attachment to inanimate things. If humans weren't so emotionally involved with the code, AI could happily produce C/C++ software indefinitely. (And if we could kick our dependence on the fucking browser for an application platform, we wouldn't need the horror that is the JavaScript ecosystem)
        CJefferson 4mo ago
fulafel 4mo ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48618455 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48618455
- pkulak 4mo ago
  I pay month to month.
notatoad 4mo ago
the pricing page doesn't seem to call it out anymore, but the claim on z.ai coding plan used to be 3x the usage of the equivalent-price claude plan. whether that's accurate i don't know, but just based on api pricing GLM is way cheaper.
0xbadcafebee 4mo ago
One reason might be request limits. OpenAI's ChatGPT Plus w/Codex ($20/month) provides a worst-case 5-hour-request-limit of 15 for GPT-5.5, 20 for GPT-5.4, 60 for GPT-5.4-Mini. Whereas Z.ai Lite ($18/month) provides a worst-case of ~80 for GLM 5.2 (off-peak; on-peak is 2am-6am New York time). So Z.ai can provide higher limits for a cheaper price. (https://codeberg.org/mutablecc/calculate-ai-cost/src/branch/main/subscription_vs_api_comparison.csv https://codeberg.org/mutablecc/calculate-ai-cost/src/branch/...)
- pbgcp2026 4mo ago
  Subscriptions are done. By the end of 2026 everyone will be paying for actual mils of tokens consumed, via API calls.
  - 0xbadcafebee 4mo ago
    I don't see any indicator of that happening. And actually token count pricing is frequently being replaced with "credits pricing", and subscriptions with obscure variable limits
flexagoon 4mo ago
OpenCode Go is $10/month and the limits are much more generous than those or Codex
- aitchnyu 4mo ago
  After all the articles calculating OpenAI and Anthropic giving heavily subsidizing their subscriptions, how does OpenCode Go manage to be even cheaper?
  - flexagoon 4mo ago
    Because it offers cheap open source models, not GPT and Claude. I mentioned it as an alternative to Z.ai's subscription in OP's comment, not to Codex.
  - 0xbadcafebee 4mo ago
    OpenAI and Anthropic are trying to pay off a half trillion dollars of investment. They also have the most demand right now, to the point that Anthropic sometimes doesn't have enough compute and that means more limits. They can't stop taking new customers, though, because the market would hate it. An open weight inference provider only needs to pay for GPUs, or discounted APIs from 3rd party vendors. Same basic financial model but they didn't spend a trillion dollars so their loss isn't as high so they can afford to do more inference for less money, and their demand isn't as high so there's more than enough compute.
  - ignoramous 4mo ago
    > how does OpenCode Go manage to be even cheaper? OpenCode may have partnerships with the Chinese labs or inference providers for better wholesale rates. In addition, right now, OpenCode Go rates are 4x more expensive for some of the more popular models (compared to providers on OpenRouter [0]), like MiMo v2.5 Pro & DeepSeek v4 Pro. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48626751 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48626751
bob1029 4mo ago
Why pay a monthly fee when you can pay for exactly the # of tokens you actually consume? The API rates are very affordable once you start to optimize for the fact that prepaid tokens seem to massively outperform other kinds of tokens. I can often do with 1 million tokens what my peers have failed to do with 100 million. For me to spend more than $200/m in prepaid API tokens I'd have to pull a 007 work schedule.
- baby_souffle 4mo ago
  > Why pay a monthly fee when you can pay for exactly the # of tokens you actually consume? Because my 500m tokens so far this month would cost me about $500. My subscription is 100$/month.
  - slopinthebag 4mo ago
    That’s insane. 500m tokens costs me $12 on Deepseek.

Sure. But OpenAI is the same price. Why would I pay $18/month for z.ai when OpenAI is $20/month?

by pkulak 4mo ago

Sure. But OpenAI is the same price. Why would I pay $18/month for z.ai when OpenAI is $20/month?

One big advantage I’ve found — people get attached to models (including me). With open models if you find one that works perfectly for you but the next version doesn’t, you can run the old one forever (or someone will for you)

taytus 4mo ago
This is a good point I never thought of. I appreciate it.
itake 4mo ago
But… the models will fall behind. As libraries and languages and tool calling updates or the world knowledge changes, the models decay. Personally, I don’t like the change, but it’s just how technology works so I’d rather move with the flow than try to stick my foot down and freeze time.
- OtomotO 4mo ago
  No problem, "AI" will just write its own frameworks and libs then!
- hypfer 4mo ago
  > But… the models will fall behind. Yes but why does that matter? If I am happy with its capabilities now, I will continue being happy with its capabilities in the future. Yes, it cannot do the newest magic shit, but why does that matter? It can still do everything that existed up until that point, which is _a lot_. Eventually, you might also need something new, but it's not like the world shifts over all problems that exist from <old> to <new> and any tech for <old> problems suddenly becomes obsolete?
  - itake 4mo ago
    ideally, the software produced should include the latest security patches. If the model prefers a version of Ruby or node with an RCE, I guess you can burn tokens to teach the model how to avoid the introducing the vulnerability into your code? That feels quite tedious and token inefficient..
    - hypfer 4mo ago
      I'm sorry, but.. are you being serious? Yes. Yes. The only way one can write secure software is by always using the latest SOTA model. Anything else is inefficient and vulnerable. I hate this platform
      - itake 4mo ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46809708 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46809708 Maybe you missed this article, but vercel found it quite annoying to teach AI about the latest updates in the React Framework. I think you’re confusing my point. I’m not saying that only SOTA models can write secure software, I’m saying that the models produced today will write software that’s considered insecure by 2034 standards, thus you would require to burn more tokens in AGENTS.md or burn more of your time to hand write code. For example, you’re more than welcome to run Windows ME if it does everything you need it to, but that doesn’t mean Windows ME is a secure environment.
        0xbadcafebee 4mo ago
        Another solution might also be to stop reinventing the wheel every few years. New languages aren't producing better software. But people keep churning new languages out, and they become popular because humans have emotional attachment to inanimate things. If humans weren't so emotionally involved with the code, AI could happily produce C/C++ software indefinitely. (And if we could kick our dependence on the fucking browser for an application platform, we wouldn't need the horror that is the JavaScript ecosystem)
      - CJefferson 4mo ago

fulafel 4mo ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48618455 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48618455

pkulak 4mo ago
I pay month to month.

notatoad 4mo ago

the pricing page doesn't seem to call it out anymore, but the claim on z.ai coding plan used to be 3x the usage of the equivalent-price claude plan. whether that's accurate i don't know, but just based on api pricing GLM is way cheaper.

0xbadcafebee 4mo ago

One reason might be request limits. OpenAI's ChatGPT Plus w/Codex ($20/month) provides a worst-case 5-hour-request-limit of 15 for GPT-5.5, 20 for GPT-5.4, 60 for GPT-5.4-Mini. Whereas Z.ai Lite ($18/month) provides a worst-case of ~80 for GLM 5.2 (off-peak; on-peak is 2am-6am New York time). So Z.ai can provide higher limits for a cheaper price. (https://codeberg.org/mutablecc/calculate-ai-cost/src/branch/main/subscription_vs_api_comparison.csv https://codeberg.org/mutablecc/calculate-ai-cost/src/branch/...)

pbgcp2026 4mo ago
Subscriptions are done. By the end of 2026 everyone will be paying for actual mils of tokens consumed, via API calls.
- 0xbadcafebee 4mo ago
  I don't see any indicator of that happening. And actually token count pricing is frequently being replaced with "credits pricing", and subscriptions with obscure variable limits

flexagoon 4mo ago

OpenCode Go is $10/month and the limits are much more generous than those or Codex

aitchnyu 4mo ago
After all the articles calculating OpenAI and Anthropic giving heavily subsidizing their subscriptions, how does OpenCode Go manage to be even cheaper?
- flexagoon 4mo ago
  Because it offers cheap open source models, not GPT and Claude. I mentioned it as an alternative to Z.ai's subscription in OP's comment, not to Codex.
- 0xbadcafebee 4mo ago
  OpenAI and Anthropic are trying to pay off a half trillion dollars of investment. They also have the most demand right now, to the point that Anthropic sometimes doesn't have enough compute and that means more limits. They can't stop taking new customers, though, because the market would hate it. An open weight inference provider only needs to pay for GPUs, or discounted APIs from 3rd party vendors. Same basic financial model but they didn't spend a trillion dollars so their loss isn't as high so they can afford to do more inference for less money, and their demand isn't as high so there's more than enough compute.
- ignoramous 4mo ago
  > how does OpenCode Go manage to be even cheaper? OpenCode may have partnerships with the Chinese labs or inference providers for better wholesale rates. In addition, right now, OpenCode Go rates are 4x more expensive for some of the more popular models (compared to providers on OpenRouter [0]), like MiMo v2.5 Pro & DeepSeek v4 Pro. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48626751 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48626751

bob1029 4mo ago

Why pay a monthly fee when you can pay for exactly the # of tokens you actually consume? The API rates are very affordable once you start to optimize for the fact that prepaid tokens seem to massively outperform other kinds of tokens. I can often do with 1 million tokens what my peers have failed to do with 100 million. For me to spend more than $200/m in prepaid API tokens I'd have to pull a 007 work schedule.

baby_souffle 4mo ago
> Why pay a monthly fee when you can pay for exactly the # of tokens you actually consume? Because my 500m tokens so far this month would cost me about $500. My subscription is 100$/month.
- slopinthebag 4mo ago
  That’s insane. 500m tokens costs me $12 on Deepseek.