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Other fully open LLMs include Allen AI's OLMo 3.1 and MBZUAI's K2 Think V2, both of which have released their full training pipelines and datasets. Nvidia Nemo

by maxloh 4mo ago

Other fully open LLMs include Allen AI's OLMo 3.1 and MBZUAI's K2 Think V2, both of which have released their full training pipelines and datasets. Nvidia Nemotron is also an open training source model, though a portion of its dataset remains proprietary. Quoting lambda's comment: > Note that the Nemotron models are generally stronger than Olmo and K2 Think V2 (according to Artificial Analysis benchmarks), and there is a lot of overlap in their datasets (lots of datasets are based on the same sources with different filtering, Olmo and K2 Think V2 both have used some Nemotron datasets). > But yeah, Nemotron is a modern and fairly capable LLM, even the 122b is more capable than Deepseek R1 (a 671b model) on most benchmarks, and there's also the recently released 550b Ultra now. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48492439 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48492439

vcryan 4mo ago
Maybe I'll give Nemotron another try. Yesterday I used the latest one on OpenRouter and it was bad - worse than StepFun
soundworlds 4mo ago
Allen AI do not get enough love. They are doing GenAI how it should have always been done. In fact, if the frontier companies had taken their approach, it would have started much slower, but I think we would be far more advanced by 2035. Instead we have a majority of society that wants to see AI fail.
- AndrewKemendo 4mo ago
  Fully agree with this and they were leading robotic learning as well even back to 2019. IsaacSim was (and might still be) the best robotic learning sim and I ran MLAgents.
- hit8run 4mo ago
  Care to elaborate on this?
- sawjet 4mo ago
  Is there any evidence that "a majority of society wants AI to fail" Or is it just vibes?
  - markerz 4mo ago
    There’s a few polls that have shown most people use AI, but they also dislike it. I’m in that boat, where my company pays for my subscription, and I use it to be productive. But I don’t really feel good about it. https://gizmodo.com/people-hate-ai-even-more-than-they-hate-ice-poll-finds-2000731438 https://gizmodo.com/people-hate-ai-even-more-than-they-hate-...
    - watwut 4mo ago
      Does it count when I hate the Dario, Altman and their weird cult more and more, every time they open their mouths? I think that I would not hate the tech in isolation, but considering who tech elite became, their rhetoric and how they behave , I want them fail just because of that.
  - intended 4mo ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48573332 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48573332 Was discussed just recently, and there are multiple articles and surveys on AI sentiment.
- dvt 4mo ago
  > Instead we have a majority of society that wants to see AI fail. Do you talk to regular people? I work out of coffee shops routinely and literally like 90% of laptops have ChatGPT or Claude open. I was shocked at how many of my friends love the silliest of AI features (like Slack bot summarizing your day or your upcoming meetings), and a lot of decks, proposals, SOW's, etc. are (at least in part) generated with AI these days.
  - jstummbillig 4mo ago
    A quarter of US citizens use a Chatbot daily. https://www.pewresearch.org/chart/about-a-quarter-of-u-s-adults-use-chatbots-daily/ https://www.pewresearch.org/chart/about-a-quarter-of-u-s-adu... It all, of course, depends on what people mean by "AI" (I think the question basically defeats itself, it's akin to asking someone about "databases", given that it covers image generation, self driving cars, TikTok feeds, drug discovery and chatbots) but AI sentiment at large is more negative than positive. https://www.pewresearch.org/chart/americans-predict-ais-impact-on-society-them-will-be-more-negative-than-positive/ https://www.pewresearch.org/chart/americans-predict-ais-impa... So, depending on where you sit: Sure, most people will use "AI", meaning a chatbot (probably ChatGPT: https://www.pewresearch.org/chart/americans-report-using-chatgpt-far-more-than-other-chatbots/ https://www.pewresearch.org/chart/americans-report-using-cha...). 90% in coffee shop land, why not. But that does not mean that they are not weary of the consequences, and are growing more weary. I think, predictably, the better situated you are and the more your direct livelihood is at stake. That's just the animal we are. Does that mean that we should have slowed down? Matter of opinion. My take: Absolutely not. The people who need it the most around the world will have dramatically improved lives, because of access to better medical advice or information about institutions and systems, to start things and help them in their daily lives.
    - dofm 4mo ago
      I think you meant "wary" of the consequences… But this is one of those unique situations where wary (cautiousness, concernedness, preparedness, tinged with fear) and weary (exhaustion with a mental component) are overlapping into one horrible thing. So I'm not correcting you because I think basically both are right: we are going through both of these at once because anxiety is what Scam and Wario in particular are selling.
- polytely 4mo ago
  I don't want AI to fail but I would like to see Altman anf Musk fail for example. I'm very uneasy with the power hungry silicon valley freaks that are running the show at these labs/companies. Hassabis seems like the only one that is not actually Evil.
  - waffletower 4mo ago
    I don't think Dario is completely evil, but he can't see his obvious naiveté that the rest of us see clearly (vis a vis the Trump administration), and his paternal hubris, only Anthropic should win and control AI, should be perceived as far worse than Bill Gate's desire to control the internet in the 90s. The fact that Microsoft invested so heavily in OpenAI blinded me to Anthropic's potential villainy for years.
- a_136_chiffa 4mo ago
  LLMs were invented by AI2, before Transformers were a thing - with RNN-based ELMO.
typ 4mo ago
> an open training source model It's always funny to see people tempted to call open-blobs/open-weights, which are literally shareware like WinRAR or Adobe PDF Viewer, open source, and then need to invent a new term for what is actually open source.
- maxloh 4mo ago
  Nemotron is vastly different from standard open-weight models. Its entire training pipeline is open-sourced, while other vendors typically only release the model weights.
  - wrs 4mo ago
    Right, thus it is actually “open source”, and they shouldn’t need to invent a new term “open training source”. But the others have already effectively trashed the meaning of “open source”.

by maxloh 4mo ago

vcryan 4mo ago

Maybe I'll give Nemotron another try. Yesterday I used the latest one on OpenRouter and it was bad - worse than StepFun

soundworlds 4mo ago

Allen AI do not get enough love. They are doing GenAI how it should have always been done. In fact, if the frontier companies had taken their approach, it would have started much slower, but I think we would be far more advanced by 2035. Instead we have a majority of society that wants to see AI fail.

AndrewKemendo 4mo ago
Fully agree with this and they were leading robotic learning as well even back to 2019. IsaacSim was (and might still be) the best robotic learning sim and I ran MLAgents.
hit8run 4mo ago
Care to elaborate on this?
sawjet 4mo ago
Is there any evidence that "a majority of society wants AI to fail" Or is it just vibes?
- markerz 4mo ago
  There’s a few polls that have shown most people use AI, but they also dislike it. I’m in that boat, where my company pays for my subscription, and I use it to be productive. But I don’t really feel good about it. https://gizmodo.com/people-hate-ai-even-more-than-they-hate-ice-poll-finds-2000731438 https://gizmodo.com/people-hate-ai-even-more-than-they-hate-...
  - watwut 4mo ago
    Does it count when I hate the Dario, Altman and their weird cult more and more, every time they open their mouths? I think that I would not hate the tech in isolation, but considering who tech elite became, their rhetoric and how they behave , I want them fail just because of that.
- intended 4mo ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48573332 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48573332 Was discussed just recently, and there are multiple articles and surveys on AI sentiment.
dvt 4mo ago
> Instead we have a majority of society that wants to see AI fail. Do you talk to regular people? I work out of coffee shops routinely and literally like 90% of laptops have ChatGPT or Claude open. I was shocked at how many of my friends love the silliest of AI features (like Slack bot summarizing your day or your upcoming meetings), and a lot of decks, proposals, SOW's, etc. are (at least in part) generated with AI these days.
- jstummbillig 4mo ago
  A quarter of US citizens use a Chatbot daily. https://www.pewresearch.org/chart/about-a-quarter-of-u-s-adults-use-chatbots-daily/ https://www.pewresearch.org/chart/about-a-quarter-of-u-s-adu... It all, of course, depends on what people mean by "AI" (I think the question basically defeats itself, it's akin to asking someone about "databases", given that it covers image generation, self driving cars, TikTok feeds, drug discovery and chatbots) but AI sentiment at large is more negative than positive. https://www.pewresearch.org/chart/americans-predict-ais-impact-on-society-them-will-be-more-negative-than-positive/ https://www.pewresearch.org/chart/americans-predict-ais-impa... So, depending on where you sit: Sure, most people will use "AI", meaning a chatbot (probably ChatGPT: https://www.pewresearch.org/chart/americans-report-using-chatgpt-far-more-than-other-chatbots/ https://www.pewresearch.org/chart/americans-report-using-cha...). 90% in coffee shop land, why not. But that does not mean that they are not weary of the consequences, and are growing more weary. I think, predictably, the better situated you are and the more your direct livelihood is at stake. That's just the animal we are. Does that mean that we should have slowed down? Matter of opinion. My take: Absolutely not. The people who need it the most around the world will have dramatically improved lives, because of access to better medical advice or information about institutions and systems, to start things and help them in their daily lives.
  - dofm 4mo ago
    I think you meant "wary" of the consequences… But this is one of those unique situations where wary (cautiousness, concernedness, preparedness, tinged with fear) and weary (exhaustion with a mental component) are overlapping into one horrible thing. So I'm not correcting you because I think basically both are right: we are going through both of these at once because anxiety is what Scam and Wario in particular are selling.
polytely 4mo ago
I don't want AI to fail but I would like to see Altman anf Musk fail for example. I'm very uneasy with the power hungry silicon valley freaks that are running the show at these labs/companies. Hassabis seems like the only one that is not actually Evil.
- waffletower 4mo ago
  I don't think Dario is completely evil, but he can't see his obvious naiveté that the rest of us see clearly (vis a vis the Trump administration), and his paternal hubris, only Anthropic should win and control AI, should be perceived as far worse than Bill Gate's desire to control the internet in the 90s. The fact that Microsoft invested so heavily in OpenAI blinded me to Anthropic's potential villainy for years.
a_136_chiffa 4mo ago
LLMs were invented by AI2, before Transformers were a thing - with RNN-based ELMO.

typ 4mo ago

> an open training source model It's always funny to see people tempted to call open-blobs/open-weights, which are literally shareware like WinRAR or Adobe PDF Viewer, open source, and then need to invent a new term for what is actually open source.

maxloh 4mo ago
Nemotron is vastly different from standard open-weight models. Its entire training pipeline is open-sourced, while other vendors typically only release the model weights.
- wrs 4mo ago
  Right, thus it is actually “open source”, and they shouldn’t need to invent a new term “open training source”. But the others have already effectively trashed the meaning of “open source”.