5 ms·

Its a very well known fact that all of our geopolitical adversaries have sophisticated fake American ID markets. This doesn't stop any of the most dangerous adv

by 827a 3mo ago

Its a very well known fact that all of our geopolitical adversaries have sophisticated fake American ID markets. This doesn't stop any of the most dangerous adversaries from getting access to systems protected by this technology. DeepSeek is going to go buy 20,000 fake IDs for their fake distillation accounts and keep on keeping on. This just hurts normal people, Americans and non-Americans, who might struggle to authenticate or be disallowed because of their place of birth. Pointless CYA, and beneath a research group whose intention is to invent the machine god.

samename 3mo ago
Thank you. This is an expansion of surveillance. Most concerning to me is how few people understand government's access to this data. People treat AI like a diary, and the government can request that data at anytime.
- christoph 3mo ago
  Indeed - Persona is backed by Founders Fund - also linked to lovely companies like Palantir, Flock & Anduril. Some people still (claim they) can’t see the massive dragnet swirling around all of society right now.
  - preg_match 3mo ago
    It’s especially frustrating with Anthropic because we’ve known about issues with Persona for a while now, with discord. But anthropic leadership I guess is like any company leadership - stupid, blind, and lazy. Just go with the vendor whose name you know. Anthropic could have EASILY made an in-house solution with < 100 employees. But no, they have to make the same mistakes that behemoths like IBM and Oracle make. Y’all haven’t even IPO’d yet and we’re already entering the “sleepwalk to your grave” phase of the corporate cycle.
    - gojibary 3mo ago
      In-house would almost certainly mean future prosecution by the US. Using a company connected to Palantir means any employee of the US government that wants to keep their job won't ask questions.
      - greenavocado 3mo ago
        How America Works, 2026 Colorized: America passes many laws but doesn't enforce the majority of them and allows people to grow largely unencumbered unless their initiatives threaten established players or the system itself. The Dissident: If you are vocal about the system, you get locked out at every opportunity from the things you depend on to sustain yourself and communicate (social media, housing and banking). Red Ocean: If you try to compete in a red ocean and don't give a cut to the players in that space you're shut down with frivolous lawsuits for example by buried by frivolous patent or copyright claims, liability lawsuits, and licensure requirements. Blue Ocean: If you are a compliant person and grow in a blue ocean, once you are big enough to where you can't realistically back down, you are threatened with prison time and sanctions unless you are onboard with the government's actual agenda and its preferred partners. Secret Societies: Above a certain point you are expected to compromise yourself with blackmail to grow even further and become a part of the brotherhood that actually runs the government agenda.
    - kajman 3mo ago
      I'm just a petty conspiracy theorist, but my assumption is their use of Persona was part of "the deal" they've been encouraged to make, and what you're seeing is a company being brought to heel.
    - greenavocado 3mo ago
      > But anthropic leadership I guess is like any company leadership - stupid, blind, and lazy Has it ever occurred to you that this is intentional? All those Bilderberg and WEF forums and Peter Thiel's Dialog Club are not for nothing
  - monksy 3mo ago
    The funny thing. I've talked to normies about this. Frequently their response is "good to solves <bad thing>" But they never seem to wrap their head arround this is a tax on non-violators. Using identity verification to stop underage people from seeing porn is never realized that people that are above 18 are put at risk over this, or how it could be extended to now "adult"/"community decided 'obscene' materials" (that's what adult content is) is now restricted. (Which can include medical abortion information, disucssions arround gender, political campaigns that are unpopular, etc)
  - SV_BubbleTime 3mo ago
    Many of the people that talk about the “massive dragnet swirling around” are posting all their details to social media and checking in on their Ring cameras, and they’re also volunteering for the persona uploads.
  - sneak 3mo ago
    Make sure you write it fully qualified: Flock (YC S17) Flock is a Y Combinator company.
- tekchip 3mo ago
  Not just the government! techcrunch.com/2026/06/18/texas-government-data-breach-allowed-hackers-to-steal-3-million-drivers-licenses-and-passports/
- psalaun 3mo ago
  > People treat AI like a diary, and the government can request that data at anytime. Isn't the case for any US company? I'm working in an european SaaS business, and we consider that any data that goes through Azure or Google Workspace can be accessed by the US government on a whim, even if their datacenter is on our soil.
  - tadfisher 3mo ago
    If it's your customers' data you can use E2EE. If you need to read it, it is probably cheapest to keep everything on EU infrastructure to avoid paying repeat egress costs. You might also consider shipping software-as-software, which doesn't need cloud resources, and the data can only be searched one customer at a time.
- wahnfrieden 3mo ago
  They also force tap access to the data
- nextaccountic 3mo ago
  also it's not protected by the 4th amendment like an actual diary would, right? it's bullshit
jsyang00 3mo ago
> Pointless CYA They are literally being forced to do this by the government. The counter-ask if for them to self immolate in order to take a principled stand, as access to all their models is banned.
- transcriptase 3mo ago
  Perhaps they should stop being holier than thou wackjobs and try the “shut the fuck up and act like a business” strategy of being a business. Seems to be working for every other AI company.
  - ianm218 3mo ago
    If you think the field you are working in is more dangerous and important to the future of national security than i.e. nuclear energy and nuclear bombs you should really not just shut up and act like a cold blooded capitalist. It feels like people here are not able to separate their personal dislike of the effective altruist types from a real debate on how big the stakes of AI are.
    - transcriptase 3mo ago
      It’s tough to separate with them because “for the greater good” and “saving people from themselves” has historically not gone over well, especially when we all know it’s a veneer and get cold blooded capitalism.
      - ianm218 3mo ago
        > especially when we all know it’s a veneer and get cold blooded capitalism This is what I don’t really get about the AI discourse… I don’t have any reason to think this is all a veneer over capitalism. We don’t know what goes on in their head but the track record of the cofounders of Anthropic is quite honest so it feels like a conspiracy theory to suggest they are purposefully getting themselves nationalized when the simplest answer is that there is real documented concern on AI safety risk
      - 3mo ago
alex_duf 3mo ago
It's about covering their arse before reopening Fable 5 They don't care if anyone is using a fake ID, they care that they can send the hot potato back to the American government. That gives them a legitimate "not my fault if people can make fake ids. In fact it's your fault"
- SV_BubbleTime 3mo ago
  Persona isn’t just an id upload. It’s also face scan by video.
  - jackjeff 3mo ago
    So a fake ID but using your face? How would they know? Does the US government expose their database to private businesses? I always wondered how these things work. I normally run away from these ID checks. It’s just a matter of time until lone of these databases with everyone passports and videos get hacked. And vibe coding only makes it more likely. I don’t care how good Claude is, it’s not good enough for that kind of risk.
  - baw-bag 3mo ago
    Surprised there isn't a "Fake Face" market like a mannequin face delivered to your door.
    - SV_BubbleTime 3mo ago
      The latest ones make you smile, shut eyes / wink, look up, down, etc. plus for Apple they use the lidar and the IR camera for heat.
      - crimsontech 3mo ago
        Not everyone has a device that can use lidar to map the face so it can’t be a requirement. Kids have been defeating these smile and close your eyes things using photo mode in video games to control a character to perform the actions.
    - 3mo ago
tamimio 3mo ago
>disallowed because of their place of birth I noticed this is normalized too, there’s a systematic discrimination just based on the fact where you were born, as if anyone controls that, and yes, you will be added on some list, get denied or further scrutiny based on that fact only.
bob1029 3mo ago
I agree this is entirely theatrical. There is much stronger IDV technology than this, but it isn't as consistent across the customer base. You would have a significantly more difficult time defeating something like Chexsystems with fake IDs. If the AI models are truly so scary as to require ITAR-style restrictions, then I wonder if having an adverse financial background might be a reasonable canary for preventing access. These same kinds of questions come up for obtaining security clearances.
Phelinofist 3mo ago
> DeepSeek is going to go buy 20,000 fake IDs for their fake distillation accounts I'm rooting for China here, feels strange but well
deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]

by 827a 3mo ago

samename 3mo ago

Thank you. This is an expansion of surveillance. Most concerning to me is how few people understand government's access to this data. People treat AI like a diary, and the government can request that data at anytime.

christoph 3mo ago
Indeed - Persona is backed by Founders Fund - also linked to lovely companies like Palantir, Flock & Anduril. Some people still (claim they) can’t see the massive dragnet swirling around all of society right now.
- preg_match 3mo ago
  It’s especially frustrating with Anthropic because we’ve known about issues with Persona for a while now, with discord. But anthropic leadership I guess is like any company leadership - stupid, blind, and lazy. Just go with the vendor whose name you know. Anthropic could have EASILY made an in-house solution with < 100 employees. But no, they have to make the same mistakes that behemoths like IBM and Oracle make. Y’all haven’t even IPO’d yet and we’re already entering the “sleepwalk to your grave” phase of the corporate cycle.
  - gojibary 3mo ago
    In-house would almost certainly mean future prosecution by the US. Using a company connected to Palantir means any employee of the US government that wants to keep their job won't ask questions.
    - greenavocado 3mo ago
      How America Works, 2026 Colorized: America passes many laws but doesn't enforce the majority of them and allows people to grow largely unencumbered unless their initiatives threaten established players or the system itself. The Dissident: If you are vocal about the system, you get locked out at every opportunity from the things you depend on to sustain yourself and communicate (social media, housing and banking). Red Ocean: If you try to compete in a red ocean and don't give a cut to the players in that space you're shut down with frivolous lawsuits for example by buried by frivolous patent or copyright claims, liability lawsuits, and licensure requirements. Blue Ocean: If you are a compliant person and grow in a blue ocean, once you are big enough to where you can't realistically back down, you are threatened with prison time and sanctions unless you are onboard with the government's actual agenda and its preferred partners. Secret Societies: Above a certain point you are expected to compromise yourself with blackmail to grow even further and become a part of the brotherhood that actually runs the government agenda.
  - kajman 3mo ago
    I'm just a petty conspiracy theorist, but my assumption is their use of Persona was part of "the deal" they've been encouraged to make, and what you're seeing is a company being brought to heel.
  - greenavocado 3mo ago
    > But anthropic leadership I guess is like any company leadership - stupid, blind, and lazy Has it ever occurred to you that this is intentional? All those Bilderberg and WEF forums and Peter Thiel's Dialog Club are not for nothing
- monksy 3mo ago
  The funny thing. I've talked to normies about this. Frequently their response is "good to solves <bad thing>" But they never seem to wrap their head arround this is a tax on non-violators. Using identity verification to stop underage people from seeing porn is never realized that people that are above 18 are put at risk over this, or how it could be extended to now "adult"/"community decided 'obscene' materials" (that's what adult content is) is now restricted. (Which can include medical abortion information, disucssions arround gender, political campaigns that are unpopular, etc)
- SV_BubbleTime 3mo ago
  Many of the people that talk about the “massive dragnet swirling around” are posting all their details to social media and checking in on their Ring cameras, and they’re also volunteering for the persona uploads.
- sneak 3mo ago
  Make sure you write it fully qualified: Flock (YC S17) Flock is a Y Combinator company.
tekchip 3mo ago
Not just the government! techcrunch.com/2026/06/18/texas-government-data-breach-allowed-hackers-to-steal-3-million-drivers-licenses-and-passports/
psalaun 3mo ago
> People treat AI like a diary, and the government can request that data at anytime. Isn't the case for any US company? I'm working in an european SaaS business, and we consider that any data that goes through Azure or Google Workspace can be accessed by the US government on a whim, even if their datacenter is on our soil.
- tadfisher 3mo ago
  If it's your customers' data you can use E2EE. If you need to read it, it is probably cheapest to keep everything on EU infrastructure to avoid paying repeat egress costs. You might also consider shipping software-as-software, which doesn't need cloud resources, and the data can only be searched one customer at a time.
wahnfrieden 3mo ago
They also force tap access to the data
nextaccountic 3mo ago
also it's not protected by the 4th amendment like an actual diary would, right? it's bullshit

jsyang00 3mo ago

> Pointless CYA They are literally being forced to do this by the government. The counter-ask if for them to self immolate in order to take a principled stand, as access to all their models is banned.

transcriptase 3mo ago
Perhaps they should stop being holier than thou wackjobs and try the “shut the fuck up and act like a business” strategy of being a business. Seems to be working for every other AI company.
- ianm218 3mo ago
  If you think the field you are working in is more dangerous and important to the future of national security than i.e. nuclear energy and nuclear bombs you should really not just shut up and act like a cold blooded capitalist. It feels like people here are not able to separate their personal dislike of the effective altruist types from a real debate on how big the stakes of AI are.
  - transcriptase 3mo ago
    It’s tough to separate with them because “for the greater good” and “saving people from themselves” has historically not gone over well, especially when we all know it’s a veneer and get cold blooded capitalism.
    - ianm218 3mo ago
      > especially when we all know it’s a veneer and get cold blooded capitalism This is what I don’t really get about the AI discourse… I don’t have any reason to think this is all a veneer over capitalism. We don’t know what goes on in their head but the track record of the cofounders of Anthropic is quite honest so it feels like a conspiracy theory to suggest they are purposefully getting themselves nationalized when the simplest answer is that there is real documented concern on AI safety risk
    - 3mo ago

alex_duf 3mo ago

It's about covering their arse before reopening Fable 5 They don't care if anyone is using a fake ID, they care that they can send the hot potato back to the American government. That gives them a legitimate "not my fault if people can make fake ids. In fact it's your fault"

SV_BubbleTime 3mo ago
Persona isn’t just an id upload. It’s also face scan by video.
- jackjeff 3mo ago
  So a fake ID but using your face? How would they know? Does the US government expose their database to private businesses? I always wondered how these things work. I normally run away from these ID checks. It’s just a matter of time until lone of these databases with everyone passports and videos get hacked. And vibe coding only makes it more likely. I don’t care how good Claude is, it’s not good enough for that kind of risk.
- baw-bag 3mo ago
  Surprised there isn't a "Fake Face" market like a mannequin face delivered to your door.
  - SV_BubbleTime 3mo ago
    The latest ones make you smile, shut eyes / wink, look up, down, etc. plus for Apple they use the lidar and the IR camera for heat.
    - crimsontech 3mo ago
      Not everyone has a device that can use lidar to map the face so it can’t be a requirement. Kids have been defeating these smile and close your eyes things using photo mode in video games to control a character to perform the actions.
  - 3mo ago

tamimio 3mo ago

>disallowed because of their place of birth I noticed this is normalized too, there’s a systematic discrimination just based on the fact where you were born, as if anyone controls that, and yes, you will be added on some list, get denied or further scrutiny based on that fact only.

bob1029 3mo ago

I agree this is entirely theatrical. There is much stronger IDV technology than this, but it isn't as consistent across the customer base. You would have a significantly more difficult time defeating something like Chexsystems with fake IDs. If the AI models are truly so scary as to require ITAR-style restrictions, then I wonder if having an adverse financial background might be a reasonable canary for preventing access. These same kinds of questions come up for obtaining security clearances.

Phelinofist 3mo ago

> DeepSeek is going to go buy 20,000 fake IDs for their fake distillation accounts I'm rooting for China here, feels strange but well

deleted 3mo ago

[deleted]