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Slow breathing modulates brain function and risk behavior
- chopete3 4mo ago"When you feel so mad that you want to roar, take a breath and count to four." - Daniel Tiger's mom
- gorgoiler 4mo agoMy favourite of these is. “If you feel jealous, talk about it, then we’ll figure something out” In which one of the children wants the other one’s cool toy so the parent’s response is to encourage them to ask for it to be shared. Except they aren’t siblings and it’s the mom from the other family teaching their own jealous kid to go ask. How about this?: Back off cat family, you fair weather commies — that’s Daniel’s bubble wand, not yours. At least share some of your own crap before asking for someone else’s: ”If you feel jealous: shut the fuck up, you can’t just have someone else’s stuff nor should you feel entitled to guilt them into sharing it just because you asked nicely.” Slightly tongue-in-cheek. Slightly.
- mathgeek 4mo ago… or as Malcolm in the Middle put it: life is unfair.
- toxik 4mo agoI mean Daniel Tiger in general just makes me cringe, it's just so extremely American. Absolutely zero stakes, all problems are resolved perfectly within literal seconds. Nothing is left "unfinished", never dares to leave the conflict unresolved for any meaningful amount of time. It's just such a stark contrast to, say, Peppa Pig, where the message is basically always some form of "shit is going to happen, find ways to deal with it." In DT, it is more of a papering over. Almost gaslighting. DT is not allowed to be upset that his birthday cake gets completely smashed? What? That is a healthy and normal response.
- t-3 4mo agoI agree with the "extremely American", but the not getting upset is just also an extremely American adoption of elite mannerisms at all levels of society. Publically showing emotion is considered vulgar and low-class in many cultures.
- cobbzilla 4mo agoAll cultures have an elite segment. Elite segments are comprised of individuals who are generally well in control of their emotions and reasonably afraid of individuals who cannot control their emotions.
- toxik 4mo agoInteresting point about class signaling, but it doesn't explain Peppa Pig (or Bluey) showing a more healthy approach to teaching emotional regulation. The English certainly value that same kind of behavior after all. Kids learn really fast that they can't just act out with their peers for fear of rejection by the group. It's extremely strong and parents need to teach the other half of it, dealing with negative emotions WITHOUT acting out. I feel like DT does a disservice here.
- bitwize 4mo agoIf so, it's a failure to uphold Fred Rogers' original ideas. He aimed to teach kids how to handle anger, frustration, and other negative emotions by finding safe outlets, not by suppressing them.
- toxik 4mo agoAh, I hadn't realized the pedigree of DT was Mister Rogers. It makes a lot of sense as that guy gives me the icks too.
- ansk 4mo agoI've found breathing exercises to be effective for the duration of the exercise, but I'm more interested in the possibility of training myself to adjust my respiration patterns over sustained durations. Would it be beneficial -- or even possible at all -- to adjust my body's default/subconscious breathing patterns to match those mentioned in the article? Tangentially related, are there any wearable devices that allow for high resolution respiration monitoring? I'm imagining some measurement of lung expansion over time (probably at least 10 Hz) so that I can quantify the deepness/shallowness of my breaths as well as the phase of inhalation/exhalation cycles.
- RossBencina 4mo agoI have read that skilled mindfulness practitioners maintain constant awareness of their breathing pattern throughout all other waking activities. Something to aspire to perhaps.
- cryzinger 4mo agoParasympathetic nervous activation increased risk-taking behavior? That's interesting/unexpected (at least to me). Also, this part caught my eye: > The selective impact of prolonged exhalation breathing on reward responsiveness has important implications for clinical contexts, such as anxiety, panic disorder, and depression, given their distinct autonomic signatures and maladaptive reward processing. By enhancing cardiac parasympathetic modulation through prolonged exhalation techniques, individuals may restore reward processing, a valuable pathway for emotional recalibration. Prolonged exhalation harbors the potential for a low-cost, low-risk, easily applicable intervention to be incorporated into therapy or rehabilitation programs, especially to support pharmacological treatments.
- gcanyon 4mo agoYeah, I was expecting some sort of "slow breathing produces calmness/more considered behavior" conclusion. But, the exact opposite? Everyone knows what party monsters those zen meditators are? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- runlaszlorun 4mo agoZen party monster... Reporting for duty!
- thisoneisreal 4mo agoI agree it's counterintuitive, but it makes sense when I think about how, for example, it's the least neurotic people who do high-risk activities like base jumping or mountain climbing. Fear drives you away from threatening things, lack of fear allows you to move toward them more comfortably.
- cryzinger 4mo agoAh, that does make a lot of sense!
- isomorphic 4mo ago
- k__o 4mo agoi developed a health issue that has affected my breathing over the past few years and i am cognitively and emotionally destroyed, it has made me realize that breathing is really important
- jondwillis 4mo agoCmon tell us what it is
- k__o 4mo agocondylar resorption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condylar_resorption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condylar_resorption its when the tmj sorta dissolves and ur jaw/facial structure collapses as a result. now my airway is like a millimeter
- jondwillis 4mo agoAh, I suffer from bruxism and TMJ. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this condition.
- storus 4mo agoWeren't 90s of deep breathing supposed to remove all cortisol in the blood? This seems like an opposite result. Also a single prolonged breath was supposed to reset autonomic nervous system. Which research should I trust now?
- adrian_b 4mo agoThe title is inaccurate. The results are not about any kind of deep breathing or slow breathing. The results are specifically about a breathing that is slower due to prolonged exhalation. This kind of breathing is one of the many kinds of breathing traditionally practiced in yoga and also in many Asian martial arts, each kind for different purposes. The experiments used in TFA have used a breathing rhythm of 2-second inhalation with 8-second exhalation, which is about the same as how I learned this kind of breathing as a child, from a yoga manual. I have never heard about a single breathing of any kind to have much effect. For any kind of breathing rhythm you may need to use it from a large fraction of a minute up to a few minutes to have a noticeable effect. As explained in TFA, this particular kind of breathing rhythm changes the balance between the 2 components of the autonomic nervous system, in favor of the parasympathetic nervous system. This has the effect to diminish the influence that fear has on making decisions. TFA is interesting because it provides a scientific confirmation about the usefulness of this kind of breathing rhythm, which has been traditionally used for centuries, if not even for millennia, in India, China and other Asian countries.
- jaypatelani 4mo agoSo doing this Sudarshan Kriya helps ? Or we should avoid it ? https://www.aolresearch.org/published-research https://www.aolresearch.org/published-research
- Sam6late 4mo agoSlow breathing is also recommended for novices before public speaking, as it helps speakers overcome irrational physiological fear of facing people, the risk-taking shift is useful as it helps you speak more confidently, not more cautiously. Slow breathing can calm nerves quickly; bottom-up regulation: body tells brain “you’re safe”.
- achow 4mo agoSlow breathing (in yoga: pranayama) instantly down-regulates your nervous system by boosting vagal tone and lowering sympathetic "fight-or-flight" activity. When your breath lengthens, it signals your brain that you are completely safe, dropping your heart rate and lowering blood pressure. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12858147/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12858147/
- brador 4mo agoIt doesn’t signal anything. Your heart rate drops because you’re inhaling less oxygen so your heart is like “we don’t need this high fi flow” and slows down blood flow to lower energy expenditure. Lower energy state always wins unless chasing energy source.
- setopt 4mo agoNote that fast breathing doesn’t necessarily mean high oxygen uptake. Deep breaths result in higher oxygen uptake (since you spend less time just moving the same stale air up and down your airways), and deep breaths are usually easier to perform when breathing slowly.
- djtango 4mo agoYour confident ignorance motivated me to at least dig up some cursory research on this space, I hadn’t previously bothered because I live and breathe this stuff (pun not intended). As a young impressionable, I set out to understand and overcome performance anxiety as someone who suffered from it. After some reading, one of my conclusions was that I should do the most stressful thing possible to understand stress better and develop physical tolerance to stress. This culminated in me signing up for a series of Muay Thai interclub fights because getting punched (or kicked) in the head while pushing your heart rate to ~200bpm is definitely up there for “stressful circumstances”. Turns out breathing really helps in that situation too beyond just taking in more oxygen - relaxation is critical for both technical execution and strategic thinking. Slow breathing also really helps with freediving - another hobby of mine that I dabble with that happens to involve going deep (no pun intended) on conscious relaxation. But sure, it’s just you taking in oxygen to moderate your heart rate. Here are some papers I surfaced for you and others who are interested [0] https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aan1466 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aan1466 [1] https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aai7984 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aai7984 [2] https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/human-neuroscience/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2018.00353/full https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/human-neuroscience/arti...
- 0ckpuppet 4mo agolike inhaling a cigarette and slowly exhaling smoke.
- N_Lens 4mo agoI wonder how much of the relaxation effects of smoking involve the long slow exhales. I understand the nic aspect.
- uberex 4mo agoAlso try to make decisions ahead of time too. E.g. figure out what your opinion is before the meeting. Think like a pilot, don't let the plane do something you hadn't anticipated 5 minutes before (or in case of life 5 days 5 weeks 5 months or sometimes 5 years!) Cant do this for everything but examples are supermarket lists, home viewing (know your price, questions, decision criteria)
- alserio 4mo agoAOT what you can, JIT what can benefit from more information.
- iknownthing 4mo agoI've never found it to make a difference
- thesmtsolver2 4mo agoSomething that yoga has propounded for centuries, been mocked and now science confirms it and the ignores the history and cultural practice.
- albert_e 4mo agowho mocked breathing techniques though .. mindfulness and meditation have been seeing broad adoption - with apps like headspace etc also getting good traction
- thesmtsolver2 4mo agoNow it is getting traction. Go back a few decades and you would be mocked as hippy, new agey, zealot, etc., depending on the continent and decade. There is still resistance in India to teaching this in government schools.
- albert_e 4mo agoThere were real hippie movements that mixed it with spiritual stuff that only appeals to a minority. Hence some labelling by association. (I dont feel very motivated to work in blockchain -- because by association it carries elements of crypto hype that I find distasteful) Once you separate the physical excercise and its benefits and allow people the space to pursue them for their benefits without necessarily subscribing to new spirituality -- it has found broader appeal. (Few decades ago smoking was widely accepted socially even though it was no secret that it damages health. It took a few decades of mounting scientific evidence for society to shun smoking. Takes time for society and cultures to accept new ideas.) -- Resistance to teaching in schools ... from who? Schools in india have a lot of shortcomings when it comes to physical education, sports and other life skills training -- yoga / meditation alone does not get any special treatment either for or against. There is a lot more our schools can do better -- including surely physical exercise and meditation/breathing exercises. If anything there is too much emphasis on making international yoga day a grand spectacle one day each year -- which surely involves involuntary participation by schoolkids -- with no lasting benefits except PR. Even the most vocal debates of today about school curriculum (see CBSE / NCERT in current affairs) dont have any arguments for or against extra curricular or non academic skills in school. We broadly have a long way to go in making our education curricula well rounded. Would welcome more genuine elements of physical wellbeing and meditation included (without any burden of spitiruality mixed in -- which can create the resistance you might be referring to).
- galaxyLogic 4mo agoBut fear is often good. Breathing slow to counter your fear should only be done when you know it is an irrational fear.
- toxik 4mo agoFear is rarely good, surely? Maybe if you potentially have to literally fight for your life, yes, but that - I hope - is a rare occurrence.
- sdsd 4mo agoSome fears of mine: STDs, car crashes, losing my job, getting in trouble, harsh conflict, social ostracization, my kids getting hurt, getting sick, dying, losing my laptop, I mean I could go on and on. I think most fears are so rational and obvious we forget to even classify them as fears, instead reserving that label exclusively for irrational fears. Out of the emotions, the feeling urging us to avoid negative consequences seems pretty useful haha
- vasco 4mo agoYour argument defeats itself. You say fear is good, presumably because it stops you from doing things you don't know are dangerous. But then you say you can do a technique to defeat fear when you know the fear is irrational. But your argument starts from the premise that you don't know a situation is dangerous or not without the fear so how would you know it's irrational? In my experience it's the opposite, most fear is not useful.
- galaxyLogic 4mo agoThe example was public speaking. Many people get very anxious if they need to do that. But if they think about it rationally they realize there is no real danger there. That's how they know it is an irrational fear, and they can use the breathing technique to make it managable. So maybe it's more about if you know you should not or can not run away from a fearful sitution you should take a deep breath. Whereas if you are on a dark street alone and a group of hooligans look like they might attack you then feel fear and instead of breathing deep, you should run.
- vixen99 4mo agoThe finding certainly chimes with my experience. A few deep breaths each with a slow release taking up to around twelve seconds almost always lowers my blood pressure sometimes by as much as 10 points with the attendant calmness thrown in. Although the BP effect is temporary, by habitually doing it, my BP even drops on a semi-permanent basis. Reports on this routine abound. If the goal here can be achieved, those with a BP problem will immediately appreciate the upside of this approach.
- tmach32 4mo agoI've been practicing coherent breathing (6 breaths/min, equal inhalation and exhalation) to help with anxiety. I'm mostly going off a study[1] where participants who practiced coherent breathing 20 mins a day reported significantly improved outcomes weeks later. Does anyone have advice about HRV specifically within the context of anxiety? I've been measuring my SDNN using a Polar strap, and it hasn't really budged. However, I'm not taking that too seriously. I think my HRV is already fairly good because I bike. Anecdotally, I think the coherent breathing helps, especially if I _remember to do it in stressful moments_, not just in the morning. [1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10719279/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10719279/
- adrian_b 4mo agoAs demonstrated in an older article cited in the parent article, at the same pace of 6 breaths/min it matters a lot which is the ratio between the exhalation time and the inhalation time. In the experiments, slow inhalation with fast exhalation was never helpful, equal inhalation and exhalation was helpful only in certain circumstances and fast inhalation with slow exhalation (i.e. 2-second inhalation followed by 8-second exhalation) was always efficient in stimulating the parasympathetic nervous system and inhibiting the sympathetic nervous system. The results from TFA are specifically for fast inhalation and slow exhalation, not for slow breathing in general. The negative results from the article linked by you are perfectly consistent with the other results, which showed that equal inhalation and exhalation was useful only in certain circumstances, which were not tested in the article linked by you. In general, slow breathing by fast inhalation and slow exhalation (or any other kind of slow breathing) does not have effects when you are already relaxed and having nothing to worry about, but only when you are stressed, either by anticipating that something bad will happen or while something bad is actually happening.
- seper8 4mo agoI've done coherent breathing before bed, 20 minutes. Improves my HRV by 20-30%
- intheitmines 4mo ago
- agarttha 4mo agoYou can practice regulating exhale rate in a pool or bath by blowing bubbles. I find it helps with freediving exercises where you fix the number of breaths in between reps.
- AaronAPU 4mo agoSlowed breathing with longer exhales makes a noticeable (5-10 bpm) decrease in HR during endurance bike rides. It’s interesting seeing it happen when the power output is the same.
- elendilm 4mo ago<However, the same choice made calmly, under a more relaxed physiological state, may lead to a more optimal result> The idiocy of thinking calmness leading to optimal results. Usually this comes from people who never accomplished anything. The paper is the prime example of pseudo science masquerading as science.
- PaulHoule 4mo agoIt’s got to be U shaped. There is a reason you have a sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system.
- elendilm 4mo agoMany of the greatest achievements in science & engineering were accomplished during wartime under intense stress or obsession - not a relaxed parasympathetic state. That alone should make us skeptical of simplistic claims that calmer physiological states are inherently "more optimal" for complex cognition.
- PaulHoule 4mo agoMy take about athletic performance is that it is good to be relaxed up until the moment you need to act. Even when I play Beat Saber multiplayer I think it is a mistake to be waving your arms around at the beginning or during pauses because fatigue builds up through the level. Eustress is phasic rather than tonic. Even outside wartime great accomplishments come through obsession though, but I would say that the people who “make it” in academia are the ones who are kinda sanguine about the family business as opposed to the driven outsiders.
- oliculipolicula 4mo agoSchwarzschild (not a fambizman) seemed unusually calm https://archive.ph/ZaXx7 https://archive.ph/ZaXx7 >The moon crossed the sky so quickly, it seemed time itself had sped up. My soldiers readied their arms and waited for the order to attack, but the phenomenon was so strange and unsettling, they thought it a bad omen, and I could see the fear in their eyes. Modern reenactment would be Asano Tadanobu during the eclipse scene in The Mongol (or during the whole movie, really) (Remember that he volunteered for war They also made Napoleon highstrung all the time, that the most accurate portrayal might be the one without gravitas people don't care about , the one with John Malkovich. Some will argue sleepy Napoleon is also accurate, but how about the Japanese AI taking the opp to indulge in some loving cultural appropriation (glorified fanbiz). BC Asano has shown us he too can comedy. ) Psychopaths (any inappropriately calm people) might be necessary for advancement but not for reasons or traits that are easy to obtain (or fake) Unless (but not sufficiently) one _chooses_ to go against one's own grain >Only a vision of the whole, like that of a saint, a madman, or a mystic, will permit us to decipher the true organizing principles of the universe Most terrifying (ie awe-inspiring) should be a madman who can fake that he cares about anything at all, including other people?
- polnurfer 4mo agoAlso reduces your personal carbon footprint.
- giglamesh 4mo agoThe houseplants are giving me that look of disapproval.
- dredmorbius 4mo agoRespiration and metabolism exhaust CO2 and H20 which are sourced from recent biospheric, rather than fossil, sources. That carbon is already in the biosphere, and the net carbon balance is effectively nil. Until someone comes up with a food-synthesis process based on fossil sources (e.g., petrochemicals, limestone, or the like), this will be the case. That's not to say that the agricultural food cycle is net thermal-forcing neutral as there are 1) fossil fuel inputs (ICE engines, generation, and Haber-Bosch nitrogen fertiliser fixation most notably), 2) other greenhouse gas emissions (notably methane from livestock), and 3) some carbon emission from ground tillage and release of carbon from topsoil. But none of those will be much affected by your respiratory rate.
- polnurfer 4mo agoIncorrect.
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- rballpug 4mo agoJapanese can oxygen. Tokyo's Takashimaya store sold more than 300. A five quart canister of 95% concentrated oxygen (weighing about six ounces) sells at 11 a can. [1]: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/tag/ryosuke-takashima/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/tag/ryosuke-takashima/