3 ms·

Playable DOS version available First step was the full reverse to assembler, second step is to convert the assembler to binary equal compiled C code, all this

Playable DOS version available First step was the full reverse to assembler, second step is to convert the assembler to binary equal compiled C code, all this still on DOS until no assembler code is left, then the porting to Linux,Windows will start Reversing tends to bring in new bugs and its not easy to find all bugs in such old and reversed code - but so far everything seems to work try finding open bugs if you got version 451.03 of F-15 around combined with Dosbox or a real DOS find latest DOS release here: https://github.com/neuviemeporte/f15se2-re/releases https://github.com/neuviemeporte/f15se2-re/releases the f15_se2-*.zip file contains the replacement executables for the DOS game The airforce needs YOU!

yepyoukno 3mo ago
Nice work! I’m not sure you should beat yourself up too much for a Linix* port, emulators are so well supported and ubiquitous, if it works there (not everything does), call it a win! I use Lutris (https://lutris.net/ https://lutris.net/) for its ease of use. I can see your a “low level mahn” and this may be more of a quest for you than playing a cool retro game. Any which way, GREAT WORK!!!!
- LowLevelMahn 3mo ago
  its mostly the combined work of AJenbo, neuviemeporte and others - my part is very small, fixing some compilation problems with newer compilers and spreading the news C source needs to get compiled on every platform reachable - that is a must :)
skerit 3mo ago
I'm currently reverse engineering a few games too. It's quite easy with AI now. But I'm worried about the legality of it all. Any thoughts on this?
- habagav 3mo ago
  You could do “clean room engineering” approach where the reversing agent generates a specification from its findings, and then have a separate agent reimplement the code without seeing the original binaries/code. You’d just have to make sure the specification doesn’t include actual source snippets (the AI will try this if you don’t specify). Pseudo code would be sufficient I guess where necessary.
  - alberto-m 3mo ago
    Unless you develop your AI agent from scratch or you clone a never-released game, it would be extremely easy for the rightholders to claim that both agents have most certainly ingested the binary during their training phase, since it's well known that the hyperscalers have pirated everything that could be pirated to train their LLMs. Which is why malus.sh is a parody, not a real service. One should be honest about what one builds. The F-15 project does that: the aim is the reconstruction of the original game, down to the opcodes; on the other hands it requires the user to provide the original game assets.
    - skerit 3mo ago
      > it would be extremely easy for the rightholders to claim that both agents have most certainly ingested the binary during their training phase Ingested the binary?
    - habagav 3mo ago
      If they try to claim that then they need proof, right? Good luck getting that.
    - luckydata 3mo ago
      Just no, this isn't a thing at all.
    - justinclift 3mo ago
      > ingested the binary during their training phase That's extremely unlikely. The pirating seems to have been of eBooks, which were first converted to text, losing graphics and such too. That's my understanding anyway, from reading a few reports. :)
    - gmerc 3mo ago
      Reality would disagree. If the models are large enough few legal consequences are to be expected because governments don’t want to lose out on AI investments. And in the US the industry owns the executive, legislative and well, thoughts and prayers. This creates an interesting problem via the normative power of the present - only people willing to accept the erosion of copyright can partake in the AI economy and since the AI economy has become essentially all growth, money and power rapidly concentrates on these people. There won’t be a legal reckoning because the regulatory capture is complete - these models are “national security level” too big to fail now.
- rhplus 3mo ago
  Images, music, video, and text would all be under copyright, while characters and logos may be registered trademarks.
  - skerit 3mo ago
    Oh yes, of course. I was talking about reverse engineering the code only. Requiring the official assets is a no-brainer.
    - derac 3mo ago
      Largely it is legal, but it's complicated. https://www.eff.org/issues/coders/reverse-engineering-faq https://www.eff.org/issues/coders/reverse-engineering-faq
- xp84 3mo ago
  Somehow I’m not that concerned. I haven’t heard of any company but Nintendo trying to assert rights to 1980s game IP, and that’s because they’re still selling those literal ROMs as part of a subscription service. Would I port such a game and then sell it? No, because that kind of puts a target on your back. Keeping it open source and also noncommercial, I don’t think it’s ever gonna matter. (Obligatory I’m not a lawyer disclaimer - this is a vibes based comment not legal advice. Obviously copyright is nearly infinite, in theory)
  - qmr 3mo ago
    It's not because they're selling ROMs, that only accounts for a small fraction of their back library. It's because they're assholes.
    - xp84 3mo ago
      No argument on the latter, but I feel like they also have a 'practical' concern that if they very openly ignored 8-bit and 16-bit 'piracy,' it's conceivable that devices like the Anbernic and Powkiddy ones (that already exist in our timeline) would get sold more in the open and be even easier to get started with. Maybe some parents (say, millennials who want our kids to learn the kind of gaming we grew up on) would rather buy those than a $349 Switch with the $10/month subscription they sell to the selection of 80s and 90s games in Switch Online. In our timeline of course, those are already easy to get, but those companies cater to the kinds of nerds who flash a new OS to SD cards and download collections of ROMs. Now, do I think Nintendo actually makes that much money on Switch Online from people who (A) are only there for the retro games and (B) would jump on some "more mainstream" and easier version of retro piracy handheld? Mehhhhhh not really. But someone probably espouses that viewpoint at Nintendo HQ.
    - wbl 3mo ago
      Many of their franchises date back to that era and are incredibly valuable. It's like Disney caring about Steamboat Willey all those years.
- unixhero 3mo ago
  Many of the games have bo copyright owners any longer. They are literally abandoned.
  - turpentine 3mo ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_copyright_duration_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_copyright_duration_by_...
- qmr 3mo ago
  Worry about it when you get a C&D.
snerbles 3mo ago
USAF veteran here. I grew up on F-15 Strike Eagle II, and unfortunately my copy has long since degraded. I am elated to see this project. I do have one teeny, tiny, personal pedantic grumble that is sure to bring other the branches out of the woodwork to point out how much I love chairs. Air Force. Two words. Thanks.
- ixp_ninja 3mo ago
  Fixed (might need a Shift-Ctrl-R reload). Apologies, English is not my first language.
  - snerbles 3mo ago
    No worries, in some languages it is indeed one word - like Luftwaffe. I've seen many native English speakers routinely bang out "airforce", so it's not just an ESL thing.
    - irishcoffee 3mo ago
      You spelled chair force wrong!
bluedino 3mo ago
Dumb question, but if parts of the game are written in asm, can you create C code that produces a binary equivalent when compiled?
- LowLevelMahn 3mo ago
  no thats nearly impossible

yepyoukno 3mo ago

Nice work! I’m not sure you should beat yourself up too much for a Linix* port, emulators are so well supported and ubiquitous, if it works there (not everything does), call it a win! I use Lutris (https://lutris.net/ https://lutris.net/) for its ease of use. I can see your a “low level mahn” and this may be more of a quest for you than playing a cool retro game. Any which way, GREAT WORK!!!!

LowLevelMahn 3mo ago
its mostly the combined work of AJenbo, neuviemeporte and others - my part is very small, fixing some compilation problems with newer compilers and spreading the news C source needs to get compiled on every platform reachable - that is a must :)

skerit 3mo ago

I'm currently reverse engineering a few games too. It's quite easy with AI now. But I'm worried about the legality of it all. Any thoughts on this?

habagav 3mo ago
You could do “clean room engineering” approach where the reversing agent generates a specification from its findings, and then have a separate agent reimplement the code without seeing the original binaries/code. You’d just have to make sure the specification doesn’t include actual source snippets (the AI will try this if you don’t specify). Pseudo code would be sufficient I guess where necessary.
- alberto-m 3mo ago
  Unless you develop your AI agent from scratch or you clone a never-released game, it would be extremely easy for the rightholders to claim that both agents have most certainly ingested the binary during their training phase, since it's well known that the hyperscalers have pirated everything that could be pirated to train their LLMs. Which is why malus.sh is a parody, not a real service. One should be honest about what one builds. The F-15 project does that: the aim is the reconstruction of the original game, down to the opcodes; on the other hands it requires the user to provide the original game assets.
  - skerit 3mo ago
    > it would be extremely easy for the rightholders to claim that both agents have most certainly ingested the binary during their training phase Ingested the binary?
  - habagav 3mo ago
    If they try to claim that then they need proof, right? Good luck getting that.
  - luckydata 3mo ago
    Just no, this isn't a thing at all.
  - justinclift 3mo ago
    > ingested the binary during their training phase That's extremely unlikely. The pirating seems to have been of eBooks, which were first converted to text, losing graphics and such too. That's my understanding anyway, from reading a few reports. :)
  - gmerc 3mo ago
    Reality would disagree. If the models are large enough few legal consequences are to be expected because governments don’t want to lose out on AI investments. And in the US the industry owns the executive, legislative and well, thoughts and prayers. This creates an interesting problem via the normative power of the present - only people willing to accept the erosion of copyright can partake in the AI economy and since the AI economy has become essentially all growth, money and power rapidly concentrates on these people. There won’t be a legal reckoning because the regulatory capture is complete - these models are “national security level” too big to fail now.
rhplus 3mo ago
Images, music, video, and text would all be under copyright, while characters and logos may be registered trademarks.
- skerit 3mo ago
  Oh yes, of course. I was talking about reverse engineering the code only. Requiring the official assets is a no-brainer.
  - derac 3mo ago
    Largely it is legal, but it's complicated. https://www.eff.org/issues/coders/reverse-engineering-faq https://www.eff.org/issues/coders/reverse-engineering-faq
xp84 3mo ago
Somehow I’m not that concerned. I haven’t heard of any company but Nintendo trying to assert rights to 1980s game IP, and that’s because they’re still selling those literal ROMs as part of a subscription service. Would I port such a game and then sell it? No, because that kind of puts a target on your back. Keeping it open source and also noncommercial, I don’t think it’s ever gonna matter. (Obligatory I’m not a lawyer disclaimer - this is a vibes based comment not legal advice. Obviously copyright is nearly infinite, in theory)
- qmr 3mo ago
  It's not because they're selling ROMs, that only accounts for a small fraction of their back library. It's because they're assholes.
  - xp84 3mo ago
    No argument on the latter, but I feel like they also have a 'practical' concern that if they very openly ignored 8-bit and 16-bit 'piracy,' it's conceivable that devices like the Anbernic and Powkiddy ones (that already exist in our timeline) would get sold more in the open and be even easier to get started with. Maybe some parents (say, millennials who want our kids to learn the kind of gaming we grew up on) would rather buy those than a $349 Switch with the $10/month subscription they sell to the selection of 80s and 90s games in Switch Online. In our timeline of course, those are already easy to get, but those companies cater to the kinds of nerds who flash a new OS to SD cards and download collections of ROMs. Now, do I think Nintendo actually makes that much money on Switch Online from people who (A) are only there for the retro games and (B) would jump on some "more mainstream" and easier version of retro piracy handheld? Mehhhhhh not really. But someone probably espouses that viewpoint at Nintendo HQ.
  - wbl 3mo ago
    Many of their franchises date back to that era and are incredibly valuable. It's like Disney caring about Steamboat Willey all those years.
unixhero 3mo ago
Many of the games have bo copyright owners any longer. They are literally abandoned.
- turpentine 3mo ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_copyright_duration_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_copyright_duration_by_...
qmr 3mo ago
Worry about it when you get a C&D.

snerbles 3mo ago

USAF veteran here. I grew up on F-15 Strike Eagle II, and unfortunately my copy has long since degraded. I am elated to see this project. I do have one teeny, tiny, personal pedantic grumble that is sure to bring other the branches out of the woodwork to point out how much I love chairs. Air Force. Two words. Thanks.

ixp_ninja 3mo ago
Fixed (might need a Shift-Ctrl-R reload). Apologies, English is not my first language.
- snerbles 3mo ago
  No worries, in some languages it is indeed one word - like Luftwaffe. I've seen many native English speakers routinely bang out "airforce", so it's not just an ESL thing.
  - irishcoffee 3mo ago
    You spelled chair force wrong!

bluedino 3mo ago

Dumb question, but if parts of the game are written in asm, can you create C code that produces a binary equivalent when compiled?

LowLevelMahn 3mo ago
no thats nearly impossible