3 ms·

> I'd ban all technology in the classroom. What works is chalkboard and chalk, pencil and paper. You've prohibited technology and then listed four technologies

by KPGv2 4mo ago

> I'd ban all technology in the classroom. What works is chalkboard and chalk, pencil and paper. You've prohibited technology and then listed four technologies. "Technology" needs a more concrete definition. Calculators? Computers? TVs? Overhead projectors? Musical instruments?

ajsnigrutin 4mo ago
This is nitpicking And sure, kids 6-13 don't need calculators, basic stuff, like multiplication tables is memorized.
- WalterBright 4mo ago
  I attempted to memorize the times tables. Eventually, I noticed the pattern. From then on, I used the pattern rather than memorization. For example, I compute 9*12 as 90+18.
  - RugnirViking 4mo ago
    I assume you're hinting at this, but yeah, that's the idea behind getting children to memorize and do rote math early on. There's really no better way to get people to really deep down learn strategies for dealing with numbers than repeatedly practicing and memorising stuff until they accumulate a huge bag of mental "shortcuts" and patterns and strategies they use
- KPGv2 4mo ago
  I don't think it's nitpicking. I think it goes to the heart of the issue: people saying "stuff I didn't use when I was a kid is BAD." The term "technology" is just being used as a veil to hide the lack of reasoning.
lazyasciiart 4mo ago
They appear to be equating technology with products that did not exist when they were in elementary school.
- WalterBright 4mo ago
  That would be correct! And all the technology added since has resulted in no discernible improvement in educational results. In college, the classes were a lecture with a professor, 9 blackboards and colored chalk. Not even handouts (well, there was one on time dilation). Calculators utterly wiped out slide rules when I was in college, though nobody learned any math from a calculator. Calculators just made for quicker work to more significant figures.
  - KPGv2 4mo ago
    "back in my day, kids listened to their elders" > all the technology added since has resulted in no discernible improvement in educational results. I would say it's because it's used stupidly (also I'd take a Millenial's education over a Boomer's any day). One of the best things about technology is that my kids can carry one lightweight tablet instead of 50lbs of back-breaking books. They can look up reference materials immediately instead of spending an hour looking at World Books that end up having little to know information (insert essay about being assigned a report about the golden lion tamarin in elementary school and all libraries in my town put together had one paragraph.) Yesterday while driving my kids from camp to a celebration lunch, they asked a question about science and I was able to talk to my car's AI (apparently this is a thing in new cars!) and model how one goes about getting an overview of a topic through curious inquiry. But plopping a kid in front of a computer isn't a panacea. I just think it's the pedagogist's fault, not the tech's.
    - WalterBright 4mo ago
      > instead of 50lbs of back-breaking books Are you joking? I carried one or two books from the locker to class, if that. > instead of spending an hour looking at World Books I had a set of World Books. Looking things up in it usually meant encountering a number of other interesting entries in it. I never ever spent an hour looking up something. It is alphabetized, after all.
  - lazyasciiart 4mo ago
    So you’re saying that educational technology has no noticeable negative impact on educational results. Since we know it has some practical benefits, such as accessibility, that would be a strong argument for using it.

by KPGv2 4mo ago

ajsnigrutin 4mo ago

This is nitpicking And sure, kids 6-13 don't need calculators, basic stuff, like multiplication tables is memorized.

WalterBright 4mo ago
I attempted to memorize the times tables. Eventually, I noticed the pattern. From then on, I used the pattern rather than memorization. For example, I compute 9*12 as 90+18.
- RugnirViking 4mo ago
  I assume you're hinting at this, but yeah, that's the idea behind getting children to memorize and do rote math early on. There's really no better way to get people to really deep down learn strategies for dealing with numbers than repeatedly practicing and memorising stuff until they accumulate a huge bag of mental "shortcuts" and patterns and strategies they use
KPGv2 4mo ago
I don't think it's nitpicking. I think it goes to the heart of the issue: people saying "stuff I didn't use when I was a kid is BAD." The term "technology" is just being used as a veil to hide the lack of reasoning.

lazyasciiart 4mo ago

They appear to be equating technology with products that did not exist when they were in elementary school.

WalterBright 4mo ago
That would be correct! And all the technology added since has resulted in no discernible improvement in educational results. In college, the classes were a lecture with a professor, 9 blackboards and colored chalk. Not even handouts (well, there was one on time dilation). Calculators utterly wiped out slide rules when I was in college, though nobody learned any math from a calculator. Calculators just made for quicker work to more significant figures.
- KPGv2 4mo ago
  "back in my day, kids listened to their elders" > all the technology added since has resulted in no discernible improvement in educational results. I would say it's because it's used stupidly (also I'd take a Millenial's education over a Boomer's any day). One of the best things about technology is that my kids can carry one lightweight tablet instead of 50lbs of back-breaking books. They can look up reference materials immediately instead of spending an hour looking at World Books that end up having little to know information (insert essay about being assigned a report about the golden lion tamarin in elementary school and all libraries in my town put together had one paragraph.) Yesterday while driving my kids from camp to a celebration lunch, they asked a question about science and I was able to talk to my car's AI (apparently this is a thing in new cars!) and model how one goes about getting an overview of a topic through curious inquiry. But plopping a kid in front of a computer isn't a panacea. I just think it's the pedagogist's fault, not the tech's.
  - WalterBright 4mo ago
    > instead of 50lbs of back-breaking books Are you joking? I carried one or two books from the locker to class, if that. > instead of spending an hour looking at World Books I had a set of World Books. Looking things up in it usually meant encountering a number of other interesting entries in it. I never ever spent an hour looking up something. It is alphabetized, after all.
- lazyasciiart 4mo ago
  So you’re saying that educational technology has no noticeable negative impact on educational results. Since we know it has some practical benefits, such as accessibility, that would be a strong argument for using it.