4 ms·
> Kids can read, write, and comprehend text at 8 A sizable portion of the US adult population effectively can't read, write and comprehend text. https://nces.
by simonw 4mo ago
> Kids can read, write, and comprehend text at 8
A sizable portion of the US adult population effectively can't read, write and comprehend text.
https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/piaac/2023/national_results.asp https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/piaac/2023/national_results.asp for 2023:
> Between 2017 and 2023, there were increases in the percentages of adults performing at the lowest proficiency level (Level 1 or below) in both literacy and numeracy: in literacy this percentage increased from 19 to 28 percent and in numeracy from 29 to 34 percent.
The literacy proficiency levels section on https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/piaac/measure.asp https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/piaac/measure.asp describes what Level 1 means:
> Adults at level 1 are able to locate information on a text page, find a relevant link from a website, and identify relevant text among multiple options when the relevant information is explicitly cued. They can understand the meaning of short texts, as well as the organization of lists or multiple sections within a single page.
28% of US adults are just at or below that level.
- rootusrootus 4mo ago[flagged]
- Planktonne 4mo agoThe US is a context that is generally relevant to HN, and for which we have lots of data. Literacy is a worldwide problem.
- hparadiz 4mo agoThe United States has always been at the forefront of pushing higher literacy both internally and world wide. We have just had multiple crazy tech breakthroughs, a world wide pandemic, and various other uncontrolled variables like SAT tests no longer being required at some institutions. It's impossible to draw any conclusions with so many moving pieces but ultimately I'm sure we'll figure it out. A slight regression isn't the end of the world.
- Planktonne 4mo agoYour 'slight regression' has lasted a lot longer than the last ten years, and is a real problem that has a significant effect on many people's lives. Again, this is not uniquely a US problem, but it is a problem. Jingoistic deflection doesn't change that.
- greggoB 4mo ago[flagged]
- llbbdd 4mo ago[flagged]
- platevoltage 4mo agoimagine still thinking we are at the top. The empire is crumbling.
- greggoB 4mo agoTwo things can be true at the same time
- rootusrootus 4mo ago[dead]
- llbbdd 4mo agoCheck in in 20 years. The gap between the US and whoever is in second place is enormous. I don't spend enough time on Reddit to think it's close or declining.
- throw4847285 4mo agoNo one likes us, I don't know why We may not be perfect, but heaven knows we try... (Just mixing my Randy Newman metaphors for fun. I could have also thrown in a few words in defense of our country)
- simonw 4mo agoIn this case it's the US that's shitting on the US. These numbers don't compare the US with other countries, they compare the US in 2023 with the US in 2017. And the numbers are from the US government National Center for Education Statistics.
- kubb 4mo agoWhen quoting a factual statistic is "shitting on the US", you're losing the ability to address issues.
- rootusrootus 4mo agoIt wasn't even a discussion about the US, why did we have to bring the US into it to begin with?
- kubb 4mo agoI don't know, but the person who did likely is in the US and by default cares mostly about it.
- vinyl7 4mo agoYeah well unfortunately the US is pretty shitty in this day and age
- rootusrootus 4mo agoCongrats, reinforce the point. Keep on making the online world shittier by making sure to push the narrative.
- darlachaps 4mo ago[flagged]
- vixen99 4mo agoRelevance of 'magot - a seated oriental figurine, usually of porcelain or ivory, with a grotesque form' to someone who criticizes the US? The allusion is too esoteric for me I'm afraid.
- weregiraffe 4mo agoThey meant MAGA
- rootusrootus 4mo agoI appreciate the replies that just drive home how correct the observation is. Some of you hate the US, I get it. Some of you are probably bots or shills doing it for compensation. Some are just parrots. Some are actually in the US, of course, there's no loathing like self-loathing.
- joe_mamba 4mo ago>A sizable portion of the US adult population effectively can't read, write and comprehend text. Yes and AI isn't to blame for that as adults predate AI. It's the governments, schools, teachers, parents, teacher's unios, who taught them(or more accurately didn't teach them) and graduated them out of school anyway regardless just so they don't look bad in statistics. Sorry but if you graduate people out of high school who can't read you should be trialed for fraud. Simple as. People blaming AI for adults unable to read puts us back to the 90s when Doom was to blame for school shootings or back to 60s when rock music was to blame for juvenile delinquency, all of them being wrong, and they're wrong here too. People always want to blame a third party external scapegoat that isn't' the parents and isn't the government, for the problems of their kids.
- JumpCrisscross 4mo agoNobody is blaming AI. The point is we don’t have the luxury of throwing nonsense at our kids when they’re illiterate. Particularly not nonsense where all the evidence shows it harms on average more than it helps.
- embedding-shape 4mo agoJust wanna start off by saying that with young unformed minds, it does probably harm more on average than it helps. But particularly for spelling and reading, it might maybe actually help? To be efficient with AI and LLMs you need to be good at least two things, reading and writing. One easy way of getting better is by reading a lot, and writing a lot. Maybe if we coax the kids into understanding (believing?) that better reading and writing helps them use AI better, they'd pay more attention to it?
- wccrawford 4mo agoNo, you can talk to them, and have them talk back. And it's really easy. You don't need to be good at reading or writing to use it.
- 4mo ago
- wetpaws 4mo ago[dead]
- froh 4mo agoin the intermediate oecd [piaacs report] pages 64ff (PDF page 66ff) there are bar charts indicating the percentiles of each level for each participating nation. the report also visualizes not only inter country but also intra country outcomes correlating socio economic influences (age, parents, family migration history, ...) and level of education (school, high school, college and higher) with test outcome (literacy, numerics problem solving) it also has 10y ago/now comparison. a trove for the Q "how are we doing, capability wise?" thanks for pointing to the study!! [piaacs report] https://www.oecd.org/content/dam/oecd/en/publications/reports/2024/12/do-adults-have-the-skills-they-need-to-thrive-in-a-changing-world_4396f1f1/b263dc5d-en.pdf https://www.oecd.org/content/dam/oecd/en/publications/report...
- Moomoomoo309 4mo agoA notable effect that skews those numbers a bit is that the test for literacy is often given in English only, meaning any people in the US who can read and write Spanish but not English are counted as illiterate. (It's slightly more complex than this, some states let you take it in Spanish, some have the option but still usually give it in English most of the time, but the effect is the same)
- simonw 4mo agoThat's a really good catch. It looks like that 28% figure is specifically Level 1 or below in English literacy, which makes that number a whole lot less interesting for evaluating education levels. I care about ability to comprehend text in someone's fluent language. The PIAAC figures don't appear to measure that.
- kubb 4mo agoDo you care about trends? Like an increase from 19% to 28% between 2017 and 2023?
- simonw 4mo agoSure, but if that trend turns out to be an increase in non-English speakers it tells us less about the state of literacy, which is the thing I'm interested in here.
- kubb 4mo agoThe national results page literally has a section where it shows separate results for native-born and non-native born participants. You claim that you're interested, so it's strange to see you speculate about what "turns out" when the answer is so conveniently available.