4 ms·

> the world is better if everyone can have a bit of fun, even police Police have plenty of ways to have fun that aren't Fourth Amendment violations. If you wa

> the world is better if everyone can have a bit of fun, even police Police have plenty of ways to have fun that aren't Fourth Amendment violations. If you wanna give out free ice cream cones, station a cruiser with a sign saying so. People can come to you just fine, without the "what the fuck, why am I getting pulled over?!" worries. The banana guy at least has an inkling of why there are flashing police lights in his rearview, but that doesn't make it OK.

eru 4mo ago
Sure, I agree about the ice cream cones for random people. But the banana car guy is basically opting-in to getting lots of attention. (And, yes, I realise that this is exactly the same shape of argument that turns into victim blaming when it's about cat calling or worse. No, I don't have a principled way to distinguish the two cases.)
- zamadatix 4mo ago
  Opting in to getting attention shouldn't imply anything one way or the other about how often you get pulled over. In the real world it does, because the police are a collection of humans and will misuse powers they are able to, but that has no bearing on what's supposed to be right or wrong - it's just the realistic expectation you'll have to deal with.
  - eru 4mo ago
    Well, especially in a democracy what's supposed to be right or wrong is heavily influenced by what the general public wants and accepts.
    - zamadatix 4mo ago
      What the public wants is part of that picture, sure, but what the public accepts is a different thing than either right/wrong altogether. Namely "what you can realistically get away with".
      - eru 4mo ago
        I agree in the abstract. But the abstract doesn't say anything concretely about what the exact powers of (traffic) cops should be. For example, your average cop in the UK, traffic or otherwise, doesn't carry a gun. Bobbies can get guns, but it's enough of a bureaucratic hassle that they seldom bother. The absence of guns makes a lot of the tension disappear that I read about in American encounters with low enforcement. In Germany, police routinely carry guns, but also approximately no one is afraid they might get shot as a result of making the wrong move at a routine traffic stop. (Partially that's because every shot fired comes with lots and lots of red tape. Even warning shots. If the police officer actually hits a person, they get the police equivalent of a court martial. And that's mandatory, even when it's obvious they were doing the Right Thing. Just like a captain in the Royal Navy got a court martial, when their ship sank for any reason. I say 'partially', because I suspect culture has a lot to do with it.)

eru 4mo ago

Sure, I agree about the ice cream cones for random people. But the banana car guy is basically opting-in to getting lots of attention. (And, yes, I realise that this is exactly the same shape of argument that turns into victim blaming when it's about cat calling or worse. No, I don't have a principled way to distinguish the two cases.)

zamadatix 4mo ago
Opting in to getting attention shouldn't imply anything one way or the other about how often you get pulled over. In the real world it does, because the police are a collection of humans and will misuse powers they are able to, but that has no bearing on what's supposed to be right or wrong - it's just the realistic expectation you'll have to deal with.
- eru 4mo ago
  Well, especially in a democracy what's supposed to be right or wrong is heavily influenced by what the general public wants and accepts.
  - zamadatix 4mo ago
    What the public wants is part of that picture, sure, but what the public accepts is a different thing than either right/wrong altogether. Namely "what you can realistically get away with".
    - eru 4mo ago
      I agree in the abstract. But the abstract doesn't say anything concretely about what the exact powers of (traffic) cops should be. For example, your average cop in the UK, traffic or otherwise, doesn't carry a gun. Bobbies can get guns, but it's enough of a bureaucratic hassle that they seldom bother. The absence of guns makes a lot of the tension disappear that I read about in American encounters with low enforcement. In Germany, police routinely carry guns, but also approximately no one is afraid they might get shot as a result of making the wrong move at a routine traffic stop. (Partially that's because every shot fired comes with lots and lots of red tape. Even warning shots. If the police officer actually hits a person, they get the police equivalent of a court martial. And that's mandatory, even when it's obvious they were doing the Right Thing. Just like a captain in the Royal Navy got a court martial, when their ship sank for any reason. I say 'partially', because I suspect culture has a lot to do with it.)