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"Zionism means fighting for Israeli control over more territory like the West Bank." Now that is a valid use of the term. I think the problem it that Zionism m

"Zionism means fighting for Israeli control over more territory like the West Bank." Now that is a valid use of the term. I think the problem it that Zionism means so many different things it is nearly useless as a description. It seems more useful as a slur which has become very common in some circles. "The inertia isn't there" I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying Israel could be defeated without US assistance?

frollogaston 4mo ago
I think it's valid to use the word the way that Israel's present leadership is using it. > Are you saying Israel could be defeated without US assistance? US and UK, yes. Not just cause of the weapons and money to Israel. After them, the top recipients of US foreign aid in the area are the bordering countries Egypt and Jordan, so that they don't attack.
- UltraSane 4mo ago
  > I think it's valid to use the word the way that Israel's present leadership is using it. And how is that? Israel has a population of 10 million people and a very modern military and nuclear weapons. If it's existence was ever truly threatened things would get VERY ugly.
  - cindyllm 4mo ago
    [dead]
  - frollogaston 4mo ago
    Because that's what matters. The original Zionists aren't alive to ask what they think. Self-proclaimed Zionists are taking the West Bank and Gaza. In fact they've been kinda doing it for decades under previous governments, but more slowly. If there's some other kind of Zionism around, the most it's doing is complaining, and it's been outvoted. I have doubts about their ability to self-defend because otherwise we wouldn't be giving so much money, the situation would be stable. Even if they can severely hurt the attackers, it doesn't really matter if the attackers stop at nothing. We just lost a war against Iran despite having full air superiority and killing their leader. And especially if you're considering the scenario where Israel never got Western support, and thus never got those advanced weapons.
    - UltraSane 4mo ago
      Israel actually LEFT Gaza. You seem biased to the point of just plain lying.
      - tovej 4mo ago
        They did not. They're still occupying a buffer zone, have broken the ceasefire countless times, and are blocking people from crossing. Israel razed Gaza to the ground. It was a genocide.
        UltraSane 4mo ago
        Israel left Gaza in 2005.stop telling obvious lies. Hamas attacked Israel on Oct 7 2023 killing at least 800 civilians in an act of incredibly bloodthirsty barbarism, including children, the elderly, and 364 victims attending the Nova music festival. Remember when Hamas paraded the body of that young German woman Shani Louk they killed like a hunting trophy?
        FireBeyond 4mo ago
        > Israel left Gaza in 2005 You're absolutely right, and this is antisemitic propaganda. Israel left more than 20 years ago and didn't return until 2023 due to Hamas terrorism. They certainly didn't return: - for five months in 2006 for Operation Summer Rains - or again in 2006 for Operation Autumn Clouds - or again in 2008 for Operation Hot Winter - or again in 2008 into 2009 for Operation Cast Lead - or again in 2012 for Operation Pillar of Defense - or again in 2014 for Operation Protective Edge - or again in 2018 and 2019 for incursions and special-forces actions, like that covert IDF operation in Khan Younis that got fucked up and led to a firefight deep in Gaza (but that couldn't have happened, because they left back in 2005, right?) - or lastly, before October 7, in 2021 in Operation Guardians of the Walls. None of those large named operations could have happened, let alone anything smaller than named operations, like special forces or commando raids, because those things are purely Hamas propaganda, and not formal IDF operations. Right?

frollogaston 4mo ago

I think it's valid to use the word the way that Israel's present leadership is using it. > Are you saying Israel could be defeated without US assistance? US and UK, yes. Not just cause of the weapons and money to Israel. After them, the top recipients of US foreign aid in the area are the bordering countries Egypt and Jordan, so that they don't attack.

UltraSane 4mo ago
> I think it's valid to use the word the way that Israel's present leadership is using it. And how is that? Israel has a population of 10 million people and a very modern military and nuclear weapons. If it's existence was ever truly threatened things would get VERY ugly.
- cindyllm 4mo ago
  [dead]
- frollogaston 4mo ago
  Because that's what matters. The original Zionists aren't alive to ask what they think. Self-proclaimed Zionists are taking the West Bank and Gaza. In fact they've been kinda doing it for decades under previous governments, but more slowly. If there's some other kind of Zionism around, the most it's doing is complaining, and it's been outvoted. I have doubts about their ability to self-defend because otherwise we wouldn't be giving so much money, the situation would be stable. Even if they can severely hurt the attackers, it doesn't really matter if the attackers stop at nothing. We just lost a war against Iran despite having full air superiority and killing their leader. And especially if you're considering the scenario where Israel never got Western support, and thus never got those advanced weapons.
  - UltraSane 4mo ago
    Israel actually LEFT Gaza. You seem biased to the point of just plain lying.
    - tovej 4mo ago
      They did not. They're still occupying a buffer zone, have broken the ceasefire countless times, and are blocking people from crossing. Israel razed Gaza to the ground. It was a genocide.
      - UltraSane 4mo ago
        Israel left Gaza in 2005.stop telling obvious lies. Hamas attacked Israel on Oct 7 2023 killing at least 800 civilians in an act of incredibly bloodthirsty barbarism, including children, the elderly, and 364 victims attending the Nova music festival. Remember when Hamas paraded the body of that young German woman Shani Louk they killed like a hunting trophy?
        FireBeyond 4mo ago
        > Israel left Gaza in 2005 You're absolutely right, and this is antisemitic propaganda. Israel left more than 20 years ago and didn't return until 2023 due to Hamas terrorism. They certainly didn't return: - for five months in 2006 for Operation Summer Rains - or again in 2006 for Operation Autumn Clouds - or again in 2008 for Operation Hot Winter - or again in 2008 into 2009 for Operation Cast Lead - or again in 2012 for Operation Pillar of Defense - or again in 2014 for Operation Protective Edge - or again in 2018 and 2019 for incursions and special-forces actions, like that covert IDF operation in Khan Younis that got fucked up and led to a firefight deep in Gaza (but that couldn't have happened, because they left back in 2005, right?) - or lastly, before October 7, in 2021 in Operation Guardians of the Walls. None of those large named operations could have happened, let alone anything smaller than named operations, like special forces or commando raids, because those things are purely Hamas propaganda, and not formal IDF operations. Right?