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Since the car analogy isn't working: Let me try another one, equally with flaws no doubts. :-) Piracy as we known it is rampant of the coasts of Somalia (Yes, I

by eshvk 14y ago

Since the car analogy isn't working: Let me try another one, equally with flaws no doubts. :-) Piracy as we known it is rampant of the coasts of Somalia (Yes, I am talking about real world pirates). One of the reasons why that is happening is the systematic breakdown of the livelihoods of fisherman in the region due to dumping of toxic wastes of those coasts and the free flow of arms. Now, it is arguable that those fisherman are using the monetary flow from piracy to lift themselves from poverty which is a good thing. However, I do wish to point out that that analogy is based on my philosophy that e-piracy is not a victimless crime, as long as you have at least one data point of a person who would have paid for the game/movie/software but didn't do so because he/she had easy access to a torrent. To be honest, I don't care about people pirating stuff. It is the moral justifications that seem rather specious at best. What is wrong with accepting that you are doing something wrong and... keep doing it if you wish?

westicle 14y ago
If people weren't eating up your "stealing a car" example, I doubt the "violently kidnapping and holding for ransom" example will fare any better. How about this: a young woman has a sick child in a jurisdiction without universal health care. Her income is insufficient to pay for his treatment, so she has sex with some rich men in exchange for money. Sadly, prostitution is illegal. Is it ever right to break the law in order to improve your prospects (or those of your family)? Some would say it is a moral imperative.
kybernetikos 14y ago
> e-piracy is not a victimless crime, as long as you have at least one data point of a person who would have paid for the game/movie/software but didn't do so because he/she had easy access to a torrent. Well.... If the easy availability of the torrent led to more sales than it diminished, then the crime is still victimless regardless of your datapoint, since the supposed victim actually received a benefit. This may seem far fetched, but I understand that for all but the largest block busters, there is some evidence that this is true for films: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2176246 http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2176246 If you're a film maker, making non-blockbuster films, you should probably be supporting piracy from a purely financial point of view. I fully expect that the same is true in music as well. http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/48001/pirates-more-music-online-non-file-sharers http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/48001/pirates-more-music-onl...
demetrius 14y ago
>> What is wrong with accepting that >> you are doing something wrong and... >> keep doing it if you wish? Because we believe there’s honestly nothing wrong with it. Paraphrasing you: I don’t understand what is wrong with accepting that pirates are doing something right and... abstain from doing it if you wish?
- Domenic_S 14y ago
  > Because we believe there’s honestly nothing wrong with it. Your belief is not required. Laws are laws.
  - slavak 14y ago
    His belief is not required for it to be illegal. "Wrong," on the other hand, is a whole different concept...
  - demetrius 14y ago
    Laws are not set in stone (and when they were, in Hammurapi’s time, it didn’t help much), and some laws are clearly stupid and vicious. For example, in imperial China, it was once illegal for an ordinary person to keep astronomical tools at home (if I remember corectly, there was a death penalty for this). I believe copyright laws are just like this.
learc83 14y ago
>e-piracy is not a victimless crime, as long as you have at least one data point of a person who would have paid for the game/movie/software but didn't do so because he/she had easy access to a torrent. By that definition a criminal who steals a a physical product from a store is guilty of both stealing the product and depriving the store of his hypothetical future patronage. What about producing better substitute product. Am I guilty because I create a product that stops people from buying your product? If it's not the act of piracy that makes it immoral, but the result, then anything else that has the same result should be equally immoral.

by eshvk 14y ago

westicle 14y ago

If people weren't eating up your "stealing a car" example, I doubt the "violently kidnapping and holding for ransom" example will fare any better. How about this: a young woman has a sick child in a jurisdiction without universal health care. Her income is insufficient to pay for his treatment, so she has sex with some rich men in exchange for money. Sadly, prostitution is illegal. Is it ever right to break the law in order to improve your prospects (or those of your family)? Some would say it is a moral imperative.

kybernetikos 14y ago

> e-piracy is not a victimless crime, as long as you have at least one data point of a person who would have paid for the game/movie/software but didn't do so because he/she had easy access to a torrent. Well.... If the easy availability of the torrent led to more sales than it diminished, then the crime is still victimless regardless of your datapoint, since the supposed victim actually received a benefit. This may seem far fetched, but I understand that for all but the largest block busters, there is some evidence that this is true for films: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2176246 http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2176246 If you're a film maker, making non-blockbuster films, you should probably be supporting piracy from a purely financial point of view. I fully expect that the same is true in music as well. http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/48001/pirates-more-music-online-non-file-sharers http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/48001/pirates-more-music-onl...

demetrius 14y ago

>> What is wrong with accepting that >> you are doing something wrong and... >> keep doing it if you wish? Because we believe there’s honestly nothing wrong with it. Paraphrasing you: I don’t understand what is wrong with accepting that pirates are doing something right and... abstain from doing it if you wish?

Domenic_S 14y ago
> Because we believe there’s honestly nothing wrong with it. Your belief is not required. Laws are laws.
- slavak 14y ago
  His belief is not required for it to be illegal. "Wrong," on the other hand, is a whole different concept...
- demetrius 14y ago
  Laws are not set in stone (and when they were, in Hammurapi’s time, it didn’t help much), and some laws are clearly stupid and vicious. For example, in imperial China, it was once illegal for an ordinary person to keep astronomical tools at home (if I remember corectly, there was a death penalty for this). I believe copyright laws are just like this.

learc83 14y ago

>e-piracy is not a victimless crime, as long as you have at least one data point of a person who would have paid for the game/movie/software but didn't do so because he/she had easy access to a torrent. By that definition a criminal who steals a a physical product from a store is guilty of both stealing the product and depriving the store of his hypothetical future patronage. What about producing better substitute product. Am I guilty because I create a product that stops people from buying your product? If it's not the act of piracy that makes it immoral, but the result, then anything else that has the same result should be equally immoral.